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Basic Greenhouse Equations “Totally Wrong”
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Michael Asher
DailyTech
March 15, 2008
New derivation of equations governing the greenhouse effect reveals "runaway warming" impossible
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| Miklós Zágoni’s equations answer thorny problems raised by current theory, which doesn’t explain why "runaway" greenhouse warming hasn’t happened in the Earth’s past. The new theory predicts that greenhouse gas increases should result in small, but very rapid temperature spikes, followed by much longer, slower periods of cooling — exactly what the paleoclimatic record demonstrates. | |
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Miklós Zágoni isn’t just a physicist and environmental researcher. He is also a global warming activist and Hungary’s most outspoken supporter of the Kyoto Protocol. Or was.
That was until he learned the details of a new theory of the greenhouse effect, one that not only gave far more accurate climate predictions here on Earth, but Mars too. The theory was developed by another Hungarian scientist, Ferenc Miskolczi, an atmospheric physicist with 30 years of experience and a former researcher with NASA’s Langley Research Center.
After studying it, Zágoni stopped calling global warming a crisis, and has instead focused on presenting the new theory to other climatologists. The data fit extremely well. "I fell in love," he stated at the International Climate Change Conference this week.
"Runaway greenhouse theories contradict energy balance equations," Miskolczi states. Just as the theory of relativity sets an upper limit on velocity, his theory sets an upper limit on the greenhouse effect, a limit which prevents it from warming the Earth more than a certain amount.
How did modern researchers make such a mistake? They relied upon equations derived over 80 years ago, equations which left off one term from the final solution.
Miskolczi’s story reads like a book. Looking at a series of differential equations for the greenhouse effect, he noticed the solution — originally done in 1922 by Arthur Milne, but still used by climate researchers today — ignored boundary conditions by assuming an "infinitely thick" atmosphere. Similar assumptions are common when solving differential equations; they simplify the calculations and often result in a result that still very closely matches reality. But not always.
So Miskolczi re-derived the solution, this time using the proper boundary conditions for an atmosphere that is not infinite. His result included a new term, which acts as a negative feedback to counter the positive forcing. At low levels, the new term means a small difference … but as greenhouse gases rise, the negative feedback predominates, forcing values back down.
NASA refused to release the results. Miskolczi believes their motivation is simple. "Money", he tells DailyTech. Research that contradicts the view of an impending crisis jeopardizes funding, not only for his own atmosphere-monitoring project, but all climate-change research. Currently, funding for climate research tops $5 billion per year.
Miskolczi resigned in protest, stating in his resignation letter, "Unfortunately my working relationship with my NASA supervisors eroded to a level that I am not able to tolerate. My idea of the freedom of science cannot coexist with the recent NASA practice of handling new climate change related scientific results."
His theory was eventually published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal in his home country of Hungary.
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The conclusions are supported by research published in the Journal of Geophysical Research last year from Steven Schwartz of Brookhaven National Labs, who gave statistical evidence that the Earth’s response to carbon dioxide was grossly overstated. It also helps to explain why current global climate models continually predict more warming than actually measured.
The equations also answer thorny problems raised by current theory, which doesn’t explain why "runaway" greenhouse warming hasn’t happened in the Earth’s past. The new theory predicts that greenhouse gas increases should result in small, but very rapid temperature spikes, followed by much longer, slower periods of cooling — exactly what the paleoclimatic record demonstrates.
However, not everyone is convinced. Dr. Stephen Garner, with the NOAA’s Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory (GFDL), says such negative feedback effects are "not very plausible". Reto Ruedy of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies says greenhouse theory is "200 year old science" and doubts the possibility of dramatic changes to the basic theory.
Miskowlczi has used his theory to model not only Earth, but the Martian atmosphere as well, showing what he claims is an extremely good fit with observational results. For now, the data for Venus is too limited for similar analysis, but Miskolczi hopes it will one day be possible.
| WATCH ALEX JONES’ ENDGAME ONLINE NOW in its entirety. View more High quality trailers at www.endgamethemovie.com |
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March 15th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Runaway warming is impossible, in the first place, because CO2 doesn’t CAUSE warming at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzSzItt6h-s
March 15th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
.and now a word from Nobel Peace Prize Winner Al Gorged…
SHUT UP!!! Stop asking questions and eat your Soylent Green!
March 15th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Beware the ides of March, eco-mentalists.
Terry Wagar, please, bite size pieces. Use paragraphs.
March 15th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Beware the ides of march
March 15th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
http://www.gunsamerica.com/923....._Rifle.htm
March 15th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Terry Wagar Even though this has little to do with the global warming hoax. You better make copies of that tape and pass them around to family members both sides and get a ‘reliable’ attorney to hold a copy. Then go after wifey pooh.
March 15th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
#5 I thought you said beware the eyes of Marge!
March 15th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Don’t eat too much Soy,it’s not good for ya!
March 15th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
amen to that $hit.
March 15th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Folks, this does not give any actual information, and the underlying principle is incorrect. Venus is so much hotter because its co2 is not bound under the ground. We’ve been releasing more co2 than is natural. Global warming is real. The science is solid on global warming, and there’s nothing in this article to indicate anything different. The concept of all of climate models relying on one old equation is laughable people, really. Grow up, join the real world.
And what the hell is wrong with Terry?
March 15th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Science Teacher, Do you have to ability to do research? Thank God your not teaching my kids, your an IDIOT!
BTW, Global Warming is a lie! Do the research before you make yourself out to be an IDIOT next time! The 19,000 United States scientist must not know what they are talking about! A public school teacher is the EXPERT! Shallow your PRIDE you are WRONG.
One more reason to home school brain dead IDIOTS, calling themselves teachers in public schools!
March 15th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
science teacher: I bet you will tell me NASA is wrong too right?
March 15th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
“Venus is so much hotter because its co2 is not bound under the ground. We’ve been releasing more co2 than is natural.” – science teacher
Though it might be true that Venus is over heated by the greenhouse effect. Humans release less than half of a percent of the total CO2 in the Earth’s atmosphere. In other words, the trees we cut down product more CO2 than our entire population. CO2 is natural. You are releasing CO2 as you sit at the computer reading this reply.
I’d like to refer you to the timeline graph, originally presented to you by Al Gore. Al Gore reveals there are complexities about the timeline, but he never states what they are. If you really take a look at the timeline, you would have noticed that CO2 rises and falls 800 years after the rise and fall of temperature. CO2 is lagging behind. CO2 can not be fuelling global warming. In fact, it is a product of global warming.
This is only the beginning of the argument I could start. I suggest you inform youself on the opposing side of the debate first, before attempting to reply.
I recommend this documentary: The Great Global Warming Swindle
That is, if you can find it. This video is often deleted for its denial of man-made global warming. I think you can still watch it on google video.
March 15th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
I bet hes not a science teacher but some yuppie full of propaganda. Listen dude, our whole solar system is heating, the sun is getting hotter. Check nasa reports and graphs. Its cooling a bit now but will get hot again (of course). This science teacher think our SUV’s are A: polluting our atmosphere (not true) and B: melting ice caps on mars.
You see, its a battle of logic, records, and analysis. owned?
March 15th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
The Great Global Warming Swindle:
http://video.google.com/google.....&hl=en
March 15th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
There ya go. Voice of sanity. Phew!
March 16th, 2008 at 1:19 am
“A very powerful politician – who of course will remain unamed so verification is impossible – says the Iranian leader is Jewish and thus a Jewish conspiracy is taking place again. Pardon me if I pooh pooh such solid facts as that, but I heard it from a great authority who’s in position to know that all people pointing to a Jewish conspiracy are actually aliens just trying to take over the planet….Oh and Al Gore invented the internet. Really, help me spread the news!
March 16th, 2008 at 1:26 am
Hey Science Teacher,
Why don’t you go dig up the graphs Al Gore used to prove the correlation between CO2 and global tempurature, then read them carefully when they ARE NOT superimposed over each other and tell me which comes first, the temperature or the CO2? Hint: I just answered it for you.
There is as much as an 800 year difference in recorded history. Al Gore is a tool, and so are you if you are willing to believe such nonsense. So what if Venus has a lot more CO2? What about Mars? The ice caps there are melting. Maybe its some secret government slave mine with millions of SUVs racing around Mars? Those aren’t dried up river beds, those are 8 lane highways all clogged with Cadillac Escalades!
March 16th, 2008 at 1:35 am
The Kyoto Protocal on Global Warming is a shining example of “centralized science” based upon the needs of “centralized banking” to control and redistribute the value of fiat currency.
Because fiat currency is driving these complex differential equations, it acts like a common denominator in the equation making it a FIAT SCIENCE, on behalf of the controlling fiat markets that stand to gain total control.
It’s the same with the war in Iraq, it was based upon “central banking” where the data(WMD’s) and motives(control over the economy) are a fiat creation, the same as printing money out of thin air with NO REAL BACKING!!!! “Where’s the beef.”
If they can do that with war and war profiteering, then they can surely do it with the Kyoto Protocal. And to stitch it all together like a patch quilt of cut up nations, are all of the new laws which are aimed to fund and establish the NWO. These new international laws demand the annihilation of soveriegn nations through massive debt to centralized banking, where the only solution becomes fiat facts to go along with the manipulation of fiat money, which will ultimately distroy all soveriegn citizenship. Open borders anyone?
I am NOT joking around, this is exactly what’s happening. Far bigger than the Keyoto Protocal and it’s creators, are the planners of the NWO and centralized banking, that use every stealth angle to manipulate the world.
Once we let go of reality and cross the line, human awareness will become a fiat reality where all facts are paten pending, regardless of the truth. That is, things like genocide will no longer exist unless the information has been pre-approved to motivate a patriotic war whenever it’s needed by our leaders. And the death casualties, well, those numbers will also be fiat to keep everyone happy.
Fiat death tolls, hmmm, now that’s very impressive George, good job, well done turkeys and it’s time for the elite banquit to begin. “No more trouble and hurt, but first we need fiat people, people who need fiat people, are the luckiest people in the world.” Come on everyone sing along with the NWO.
March 16th, 2008 at 2:20 am
When is a human life only as good and as meaningful, as the paper it’s written on?
March 16th, 2008 at 2:36 am
Although Miklós Zágoni can prove that levels of CO2 greenhouse gases are in a natural cycle and man made CO2 gases are not as bigger problem as first thought, I bet no one in the media or any government department, comes forth with this information. Even Britain’s LIAR B LAIR is pushing for an environmental revolution to tackle climate change, which will involve the US and China. Don’t allow him to lie to you, as he has done here in the UK.
By the way, UK media reported Blair going to lecture at Yale University. No media attention has been made on the matter. I can only assume he went to the skull and bones ceremony.
March 16th, 2008 at 2:48 am
They are trying to tell us that life, love, family and liberty are only worth the ink and paper it’s written on. Without that piece of paper, EVERYTHING about you is WORTHLESS.
Think about that for a minute. Someone can print a piece of paper with green ivy, glitter and gold embossment, put a blue stamp on it, practically made from thin air, that states: YOU ARE NOW WORTHLESS, YOUR FEELINGS ARE WORTHLESS, EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU IS WORTHLESS, NO MATTER WHAT, SO HELP ME GOD.
And the real cause of death, well, that’s a matter of fiat statistics.
March 16th, 2008 at 4:03 am
Siejeff, comment 21
Sadly, most of our science teachers would go along with the moon being made of cheese, if it were written in the books that have officially been approved for the class room.
March 16th, 2008 at 6:07 am
Hey all
I’m a training science teacher, and i wanted to point out that I dont follow the media mantra. As it stands I’m completely the only one out of the box tho, I almost got in a heated argument with other teachers in the department last week about vaccines. Trouble is no one reads these days – well nothing that tells the truth anyways, they’re all so engrossed in the matrix. I’ve already had some interesting discussions about climate change with students and how the man made part is fabricated, some of them were quite open to reconsider. The most irritating thing, is when they were doing a case study (as directed by their previous teacher), on “anything current and potentially controversial”, ALL OF THEM came out with the MSM conclusion, NONE OF THEM arrived at any kind of independent well thought out answer that was accurate… I wanted to band my head against a wall. The text books are even written to give the impression of evaluating evidence, but they always site bad sources to come out with a predetermined result. Its blatant brain washing. Man I’m angry about this!! Its been an eye opener training as a teacher, but I cant say im staying in this UK system… its SO bad. what can we do?!
March 16th, 2008 at 8:51 am
—————
["James Says:
March 16th, 2008 at 6:07 am
Hey all
I’m a training science teacher, and i wanted to point out that I dont follow the media mantra. As it stands I’m completely the only one out of the box tho, I almost got in a heated argument with other teachers in the department last week about vaccines. Trouble is no one reads these days - well nothing that tells the truth anyways, they’re all so engrossed in the matrix. I’ve already had some interesting discussions about climate change with students and how the man made part is fabricated, some of them were quite open to reconsider. The most irritating thing, is when they were doing a case study (as directed by their previous teacher), on “anything current and potentially controversial”, ALL OF THEM came out with the MSM conclusion, NONE OF THEM arrived at any kind of independent well thought out answer that was accurate… I wanted to band my head against a wall. The text books are even written to give the impression of evaluating evidence, but they always site bad sources to come out with a predetermined result. Its blatant brain washing. Man I’m angry about this!! Its been an eye opener training as a teacher, but I cant say im staying in this UK system… its SO bad. what can we do?!]
——————————————————–
Just let them know that there are always two sides to a story and there is not right or wrong answer. At least give them a chance to be aware of the sides.
March 16th, 2008 at 9:36 am
“Let God be true and every man a liar.”
March 16th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
FAR,
I have brought this up before and it’s a very scary thought when even teachers are going along with all the lies and then teaching there subjects based on all these lies. It just goes to show that you don’t necessairly require a University degree when it comes to being able to think with your own mind. What scares me the most is how anybody at any level, even some which would make you believe could not be fooled so easily, based on there knowledge and backgrounds, are actually the biggest fools of all.
March 16th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Look, we have been in global warming for over 12,000 years. Remember when they told us that most of north america was covered in mile high ice. I believe they called it the ice age, it lasted for about 100,000 years. If anything we could be headed for a global cooling. Climate change has been occurring on this earth forever ago, and it will change again if we can keep from killing each other long enough to experience it.
March 17th, 2008 at 1:58 am
GLOBAL WARMING IS FUNNY. ITS ONLY SCARY BECAUSE OF THE SILLY PEOPLE WHO DO BELIEVE IT.
DENOUNCE YOUR UNITED STATES CITIZENSHIP.
AND JUST FIGHT TO THE DEATH FOR A GOOD CAUSE.
BECAUSE I JUST WANT TO DIE IN A WORLD LIKE THIS.
AND SO WOULD GOD.
HE WANTS YOU TO GO HOME.
March 17th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
People use disbelief in global warming as an excuse not to clean up their act. Governments use it to excuse poisoning the atmosphere and the water in the name of Money (capitalised because, after all, it is their God)
Global warming may or may not be a lie. BUT it’s a nice believable lie which will help fix a lot of problems caused by greed.
It encourages people to come up with non-polluting solutions to, for example, car engines and power generation. It encourages research into new methods of generating power, and, since the oil is going to run out at some point, that makes sense. Most people are even less inclined to believe in the oil running out than in global warming (I REFUSE to use the phrase “climate change” because, no matter which way it goes they will say they were right).
If the fear of global warming sets governments and companies in motion to improve air quality and food and energy sustainability, then I’m all for it.
March 19th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Ok, this sounds all well and good, except for one thing. Humans? There are six and a half billion people on the Earth, and the current state of warming is pretty obviously anthropogenic. I mean, you can look at ANY graph of climate change to see that Earth’s climate since humans began impacting the environment is anomalous to any climate of the past. So how can this research actually tell people that the climate system will behave just as it has behaved in the past, when as far as I knew, there wasn’t 6.5 Billion people on the planet pumping fossil fuels into the atmosphere. Yes, Paleoclimatic proxy records DO so a sort of warming/cooling trend, which we are overdue for by the way, BUT when you look at where our climate stands now as in comparison to the last few THOUSAND years, the difference is pretty blatant.
March 27th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Um, the half-degree the planet has warmed up is not “obviously” due to humans. 15 years ago we thought that degree of warming was unprecedented. But now we know better, with the paleoclimate record showing many cases of warming as faster or faster than this.
As for the amount of CO2 we’re generating, it is still only 3% of the total. Nature creates the other 97%…and she’s been doing that for countless millions of years. We’re not even sure if CO2 is rising due to man or not, it could very well be that higher temperatures are simply causing ocean outgassing (the so-called “champagne effect”) which explains why CO2 levels went up so fast in past periods of the earth’s history.
April 26th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Interessting except that it was always obvious that this was the case…..otherwise earth would have become a venus along time ago. The “greenhouse effect” is in fact a misleading term. Greenhouses are hot because they prevent convection and thus stop heat escaping. co2 and the other “greenhouse gases” work differently, they absorb radiation which has been transmitted from earth’s surface having been originally heated by the sun. Most of this is actually convected away so only a small amount reheats the surface. The effect only is strong when air cant convect away as occurs during a temperature inversion, during cloud cover and under high pressure zones where air is naturally sinking. Any global warming will thus be rather “patchy”. Also, Venus is actually hot because the co2 air cant escape into the upper atmosphere. It is not known why this is the case but if it did, venus would cool dramitacally and its hot climate would probably shut down. Because air on earth can move better, any co2 effect will only warm us so much so yes more co2 does lead to warming (but not much actually probably about 1c), but we wont become a “venus mark 2!”, well unless a way was found to stop air from rising more than a few feet from the surface! Venus is hot due largely to its atmospheric density which is seperate from its composition.
The IPCC do show rather wrong results since they excabeate the positive feedbacks to cause high temperature rises, actually its more likely the feedbacks will be negative.
May 14th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
go take a break!!!
May 14th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
cant work 4 more then 2.5 hrs!!!
May 14th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
u fired!!!!!!!!!!
May 14th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
get areal job!!!!!!!!
May 14th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Pedo file NSA CODE. shift change.
December 6th, 2008 at 3:32 am
A two-hour special, interspersing interviews with dramatizations, tells the story of Albert Einstein’s 15-year struggle to prove his revolutionary Theory of General Relativity. The theory is a concept that (as the History