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Ex-CIA agent confirms US ties with Jundullah
- Text size
Press TV
October 25, 2009
A former Central Intelligence Agency officer has confirmed US’ relations with the terrorist group Jundullah, despite the CIA knowing that the group has close links with the al-Qaeda.
“American intelligence has also had contact with Jundullah. But that contact, as Iran almost certainly knows, was confined to intelligence-gathering on the country,” Robert Baer, a former Middle East CIA field officer wrote on the Time.com, IRNA reported early on Saturday.
However, he noted that the US-Jundullah relationship “was never formalized, and contact was sporadic.”
The news comes amid US denial of any involvement in a recent terrorist attack in Sistan-Baluchestan province in southeastern Iran, which Jundullah claimed responsibility for.
- A d v e r t i s e m e n t
Baer also noted that Pakistan’s intelligence agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), has had relations with the Jundullah leader, Abdolmalek Rigi.
“Pakistani intelligence has indeed had contact with Jundullah over the years, but there’s no good evidence that Pakistan created Jundullah from scratch. And there’s certainly no evidence that Pakistan ordered the attack,” Baer said in reference to the terrorist attack that took place in Iran on Sunday, October 18, which killed 42 people including the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps commanders.
“In fact, Pakistani intelligence over the past few years has been arresting Jundullah members and turning them over to Iran,” he claimed.
This is while earlier on Friday, Iran’s Defense Minister Brigadier General Ahmad Vahidi vowed to do everything in his power to hunt down the Jundullah terrorists and bring them to justice.
“This very incident unveiled the true nature of those who call themselves the pioneer in ‘war on terrorism’,” he said in reference to the United States.
A number of leading newspapers in the West, such as The Sunday Telegraph, have also declared Jundullah to be a CIA brainchild engineered to achieve the longstanding US goal of “regime change in Iran.”
Iran’s Interior Minister, Mustafa Mohammad Najjar, is currently in Islamabad to ask Pakistani officials to hand over Abdolmalek Rigi and assist Iran on cracking down on his terrorist group.
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October 25th, 2009 at 10:54 am
first
roaddog6 Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 11:06 am
anybody that doesn’t think the us isn’t trying to start shit is buried in the sand.
American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
We need to support our military by flushing out any Al-Qaeda & Jundullah Terrorist including its supporters.
stevejax Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Um, I think people like talking about fake news on msnbc.com or foxnews.com. Try it out.
FallOfTheRepublic Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Fall of the Republic HQ full length version
http://www.spywitnessnews.org/.....rsion-2009
Newl Odah Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST4J5z38EkI
Mare Mara Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Well, that would be you scumbag. Which department do you work for? Pick an other name, you are not even a female. Please do try harder. Pathetic actually.
atomic811 Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
http://blip.tv/file/2761415
OBAMA LAMA DING DONG Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
You must like sending other people off to war what about putting on a uniform and going yourself P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S.?
rich Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
your a fuckin IDIOT !!!! al-CIA-da was created by the UNITED STATES you fuckin moron…..so who are we really gonna flush out ????? DUMBASS
Chris ~ Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 5:31 am
Rich – For your information, the CIA was created by the Rothschilds family.
Rob Banks Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 12:28 am
If we want to STOP wars we as individuals need to change our lifestyles. If we didnt use so much fossil fuels they would hold no value and we would not be invading countries to acquire them. If we the people weren’t oppressed and using cocaine and heroine we would not be in Colombia or Afgan. We the people need to be more self reliant. By purchasing foreign goods and processed foods we are furthering this problem. Cut back on driving and power consumption. You can have power over someone by fear and by controlling things of value. Dont be afraid and dont need so much unuseful items.
DVDMaster Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Good point Rob, But the problem isn`t fossile fuels, the problem is the supressed technologies around the globe, instead of embrassing these technologies, the government threaten and kills to keep it from hitting the shelves of stores. Prime example would be the inventor of the water powered car, Stan meyer. The murdered him because he went public with his invetion after he was warned. The Offered him a billion dollars to stop work on his project. But he was going to change the world, and was murdered because of it. The Same thing happened to a guy in australia. DEAD. The magnetic motor, put out 440% more power then it consumes. where is it, why are we still having brown outs. I`ll tell you why, POWER and CONTROL, with out these inventions you`ll still be relying on somebody to get you gas, you electricity. you very life depends on it. You depend, and spend alot of money a year to have the luxuries that you do, do you think they`ll ever give up that kinda power. War is just as big of a money maker, and a good distraction. The Real sad thing is we should be figuring out how to create an atmosphere on mars, not wondering who to feed the planet. Money isn`t a resource but it is severly cripplin our very existance.
Stay Real Friend
Repeal_1st_Amendment_For_Mossad Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 7:04 am
HEY PRINCESS: the biggest supporters of Al Queda are its founders, the CIA and Mossad. Al Queda is being used to justify war in the Middle East and billions of dollars sent to Israel. Now go back to Tel Aviv and wear sunscreen like a good princess.
Solid Snake Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Um American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S did you just wake up or something? Al Qaeda and alot those terrorist groups are products of the good’ol U.S. of A. We are the ones that fund them, we are the ones that keep them alive.
Seven Blood Reply:
October 27th, 2009 at 12:23 am
nope its the invaders tarnishing and taking advantage of the zealots to do exactly what they did 2000 years ago
FightOrDie!!! Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
roaddog6 – You’re correct!!! That’s how it works. Terrorism is what the US use as an excuse to go invade or to start a war with any country.
Franky Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Wow,now-THAT-is-a-very-deep-observation.
And-of-course,nobody-else-starts-”stuff”.
Go-back-to-Naive-Land.
American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 11:56 am
This is just more lies and Anti Government Propaganda spread by this website. You need to turn away from this site and stop listening what this site tells you.
Sava Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Thank you for beeing so brainwashed. You stupid ass mtf
american P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S. Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 6:50 am
I like shiting my pants
American P.R.I.C.E.L.E.S.S Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
Priceless.
rich Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
whats priceless is your STUPIDITY !!! uneducated moron !!! al-CIA-da…you dont even know the history of them to make a sensible argument !! hey FAUX news is on…hurry to the DUMB tube !!!
derp Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 5:28 am
American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S == troll, don’t waste your time replying to her (/him?)
stevejax Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Hey thanks known NWO puppet. Maybe if your head wasn’t so far up your ass people would listen to you. But you still stick around for some god awful reason, and prove our points even more.
American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
People like yourself (Traitors) who hate the C.I.A will be the first type of people visiting the Gas Chambers in FEMA Camps.
ryan Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
alex jones hardly ever uses proof of anything he says and always says “i have government doccuments here which have been given to me out of all the billions of people in the world”. he uses assumptions. david rockerfella says he wants to reduce the world population by 80 percent but no one has read the book and also just because someone says they want the population reduced, it doesnt mean they will do it. i hate a lot of people but it doesnt mean i am going to kill them!
Tard Salem Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
C.I.A. doesn’t work for the American people but for the American government.
Mustafah Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
I agree with you to a degree Princess, but you can’t force the horses to drink! These things take time and most of this sites patrons are a bit skepticle of our fine men and women that proudly serve in the clandestine services.
stevejax Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
HAHAHAHA…not a chance in hell. The only traitor here is YOU. Keep posting with that IP around and let me find you…
OBAMA LAMA DING DONG Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN THE RESULTS ARE IN American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S WILL BE ABDUCTED AND TAKEN TO A F.E.M.A DETENTION FACILITY IMMEDIATELY TO BE WATER BOARDED CONTINUALLY AND UNMERCILESSLY TILL HER HEAD HAS BECOME AN AQUARIUM FOR SEA MONKEYS.
THEN SHE WILL BE PLACED ON EXHIBIT AT THE SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTE AT THE NEANDERTHAL EXHIBIT DUE TO CRANIAL SWELLING FROM THE EXCESSIVE WATER IN HER SKULL WHICH WILL INTURN BLOW UP LIKE A HOUSING BUBBLE ON WALLSTREET DOES AND SHE WILL BE IN DEFINITE NEED OF A STIMULUS PACKAGE TO CONTAIN THE FECES THAT IS POURING OUT OF HER MOUTH
ray johnson Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
i,d rather BE TAKING A “VISIT” TO THE GAS CHAMBERS, THAN TO BE HEADED WHERE YOU ARE GOING!!”PRINCESS”.
ray johnson Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
MY VISIT WILL BE TEMPORARY, AND OVER QUICKLY. YOURS WILL BE “SLOW BURN” AND LAST FOREVER!!!!!!!
she's a guy dude Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
ap
refuse2lose Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Yes you are correct.We should all go back to watching our reality tv and listening to the dill holes that we call news reporters.
JaneTheCarpenter Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
I remember when they use to say that TV was the devil’s tool. If we only know!
FightOrDie!!! Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
American D.U.M.B.E.S.T B.I.T.C.H – So why do you spend so much time in this site?
Mare Mara Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
I most certainly am anti-government. You ARE working for the government, I’d guess a,…. secret squirrel… or perhaps you are not that well trained in the art of Elint… which would place you in one of many “fusion centres”, so…piss off traitor.
rlmdirector Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S
Your government is the propaganda! and full of lies the world has never seen.
The Dems & the Repub, needs to go. they are all part of the new world order that we are facing!
There needs to be a revolution!
JaneTheCarpenter Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
I woke up long before I started doing research about this stuff. I felt it first , in my heart , my head and in my soul. Have you noticed how when you go out side, you can feel it in the air. Have you noticed how when you are out side, you look at the sky, a tree or a flower and thank God. You see things diffrent, you see them with the love of god. Foot prints in the sand is real,you just have to have faith. That’s not to say that we aren’t in for hard time’s, fasten your seat belt we’re in for a bumpy ride.
Mustafah Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
This is news? So what if there are CIA ties to Jundullah! Maybe this is another avenue for gathering intelligence to keep us safe from dangerous terrorist networks!
Paranoia seems contagious around here!
Mustafah Shit Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Yes this is news. Go watch tv and everything will be ok again, there there thats better huh? Nice attractive people on tv, whats that? A cat rescued out of a tree? Now thats the news you want.
Mad Monkey Kung Fu Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
with barry as our president whats a few little associations among friends?…He elads the list as far as terrorism is concerned….we have more problems than some bunch of ragheaded fools
Against NWO Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Please join the Facebook group against the NWO. Create a mass-awakening through social networking sites: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=185070065907
Rob Banks Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 12:09 am
DO NOT JOIN THE AGAINST NWO FACEBOOK… NOT A GOOD IDEA TO GATHER EVERYONE ONLINE SO THAT THEY CAN TRACE ALL IPS….SORRY ALTHOUGH I AGREE WITH YOU ONLIN EIS NOT A GREAT TOOL
Col. Gadsden Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 5:37 am
Rob, you don’t think your IP is logged from this site? You don’t think the gubmint doesn’t monitor this site? But that said, Fakebook is the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen and it really is Total Information Awareness.
WhoGivesAShitWho'sFirstYouChildishFuckwad Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 5:35 am
Hey Oswald, go tell all your five year old friends you got to be first today. Friggin’ toolbag…
October 25th, 2009 at 11:05 am
“A former Central Intelligence Agency officer has confirmed US’ relations with the terrorist group Jundullah, despite the CIA knowing that the group has close links with the al-Qaeda.”
“Despite???!!” Hell, the CIA CREATED Al Qaeda!
spudnic Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 11:19 am
The cia has created more crap in this world than all the craps people take every day.
Mustafah Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Yes, it’s called an “INTELLIGENCE NETWORK”! Ther are many tools and tactics used by the KGB counterpart known as the CIA. I certainly wouldn’t call it “Crap”!
stone Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
yes you got it ,the CIA and others create the terrorists so that they can protect you from them , thats great . We created them so therefore we have all the intelligence we need and while all hell is breaking loose the people running the “show” get to profit from it in oh so many ways.
Mustafa you are delusional .
October 25th, 2009 at 11:05 am
At the risk of telling you, what you may-already know-
“D’JUH.”
October 25th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Bush put 400 million dollars into destabilizing Iran in 2007, some of it went to jundallah, some of it went to womens and youth groups, the latter is what we saw in the streets of Iran a few months back, sure they were probably sincere protesters, but it was all staged.
October 25th, 2009 at 11:19 am
And who maybe bombed Baghdad yesterday???
Al Qaeda??
Try Iran retalliation for our policies.
You don’t slap someone without expecting to be slapped back.
They all hide behind their own terrorist groups that are all government funded.
This is not just a lone gunman.
YELLOWHAK1 Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
AND THE SUSPICIOUS DEATH OF THE IRANIAN DIPLOMAT AND TODAYS STORY NUCLEAR INSPECTORS IN IRAN AND MADOFFS NUMBER ONE MAN FOUND DEAD IN HIS OWN POOL. JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER. BEING ASSOCIATED WITH THESE PEOPLE CAN BE A REAL KILLER.
Neocon Narc Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
I happen to know it was the flouride in the swimming pool water that killed him.
It is suspicious that a man conveniently dies ending the trail.
Now the lawsuits will end against him and others.
Darn the luck.
Amazing how a man who obviously knows how to swim drowns. It is pretty hard to kill yourself by holding your breath even underwater if you know how to swim.
I would only believe it if he had strapped a dive belt with weights to his body first.
It is so easy to believe he committed suicide when you have no investigation.
But if anyone in your family drowns. Suicide will be the last verdict.
YELLOWHAK1 Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 10:26 am
“it is pretty hard to kill yourself by holding your breath even underwater if you know how to swim” LOL! it was reported his body was clean of any signs of trauma. about the only thing that died was the lawsuits against him. good catch by the way. madoff should be dying of cancer any day now.
October 25th, 2009 at 11:21 am
the USA will do anything to take over iran and venezuala
American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
My Favorite Song from John McCain. Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb IRAN.
Mare Mara Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Yank Princess is not a female but is in fact a government operator, a disinfo troll most likely, working for the traitorous “government” and it comes here to try to disrupt the comments, ignore it, it shall die soon enough.
IORNMAN Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 8:48 am
She might be Dick Cheney in disguise.
FUCK THE NWO Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Stop worshipping satan.
Trench Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
If you are truly rational, and believe that the Antichrist is here, I dare any christian to debunk this. Because this Christianity end-times crap is making this movement Debunk-able by association. I challenge anyone to debunk this, if you cannot, you are operating on desires, and NOT rational. Thank you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2HxZXuTb8Y
Thomas Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
haha, that was awesome.
2bwise Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Debunk this——>http://www.antichrist.com & call him a liar while you’re at it. The crazy idiot thinks he’s only going to spend 3 days in hell & then be resurrected.
Sam Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
LOL
OBAMA LAMA DING DONG Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
ITS EASY TO INCITE WAR WHEN YOUR NOT THE ONE ON THE FRONTLINES HUH PRINCESS?
PRINCESS LOVES BUTTHOLE Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
You’re a dirty Butthole
rich Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
hey you government troll…as you see with all the tea party’s and protests , its just a matter of time before viloent armed revolution starts and you will go running with your tail between your legs….COWARD !!
October 25th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
It’s the Uranium Stupid!
Apologies, but it is about the uranium processing plant being smack on
top of the mine in Iran. Why pay for it when we can steal it instead?
October 25th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
You just have to laugh when the CIA says they are part of ALLCIADA, they should know.
American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
C.I.A is hear to protect us from internal and external threats to the United States.
stevejax Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
And obviously, to troll patriotic websites.
American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
I’m hear to support our troops who are protecting us from another 9/11 Terrorist attack.
Mare Mara Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
I am one of the “troops” shit for brains! We do not need nor do we want the support of traitors, now fuck off.
stevejax Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
I am too, and you are so full of shit its coming out your ears. You’re a government Op so just admit it. No regular visitor to this site can be that naive.
Johnny Canuck Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Then you should start with the entire Bush clan, Cheney, Rice, and all those others involved in 911 attack, then proceed to root out the future terrorists in your gov’t! Once these idiots are put away, your country will be a lot safer! Death to NWO, NAU, CIA, NSA and all the rest of the scum!
SGT. Pepper Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
I too am one of those troops and I must say Princess you are as delusional as the rest of the morons that listen to Beck, Limbaugh, O’Riely, Hannnity etc…..
Do the world a favor and off yourself sometime soon…..
Sam Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Shut your mouth sugar
OBAMA LAMA DING DONG Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
PRINCESS YOU CAN HELP BY GOING BACK TO YOUR STUPID OBAMA CLIMATE CHANGE PROTESTS AND PUT YOUR HEAD BACK INTO THAT DARK SMELLY CAVITY FROM WHERE IT ONCE CAME.
Rob Banks Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 12:16 am
I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS EVERYDAY. I DONT SUPPORT WHERE AND WHAT OUR GOVERNMENT USES THEM FOR. Why dont we take care of the troops that have fought our past and current wars/agendas. They are not given proper care and if you look into homeless statistics a great many are vets… Untill someone can prove the threat against our country and a overhaul of the programs to take care of our troops I dont want any of my brothers or sisters being sent anywehre..PERIOD! Oh and these messages will be used against us.
Corporate Death Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Princess: “I’m hear”.
So you are “hear”, are you?
Can you hear me?
I’ll bet, you are there. Not HERE. You’re not even “Merkin”.
Ben Grippin Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Well you’re dead wrong about that! The cia has NO BUSINESS operating inside the US. Internal threats are property of fbi!
Mustafah Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
The CIA should have no limits or boundaries! They have done an admirable job keeping us safe since 9-11!
FUCK THE NWO Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Another satan worshipping troll
Sam Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Isnt it funny when Mosaad agents come on this site and pose as Muslims with names like Mustafah ?
If your going to spell mustafah please get it right, Its MUSTAFA
Mustafah Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Isnt it funny when dopes named Sam post on this site trying to debunk solid truth by looking for spelling errors? How does one spell their own name incorrectly Sam the sham? See, you spelled your own name incorrectly – ha ha ha ha ha – IMBECILE!
If the CIA were not secretive, how could they possibly gather intelligence to keep your ignorant asses safe from the boogie man?
Don’t worry, it is over your head!
Repeal_Constitution_For_Mossad Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 7:12 am
So has the 9/11 truth seekers. Give them credit, moron.
:) Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Learn how to spell fed
Seven Blood Reply:
October 27th, 2009 at 12:26 am
F’ED
OBAMA LAMA DING DONG Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN THE RESULTS ARE IN American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S WILL BE ABDUCTED AND TAKEN TO A F.E.M.A DETENTION FACILITY IMMEDIATELY TO BE WATER BOARDED CONTINUALLY AND UNMERCILESSLY TILL HER HEAD HAS BECOME AN AQUARIUM FOR SEA MONKEYS.
THEN SHE WILL BE PLACED ON EXHIBIT AT THE SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTE AT THE NEANDERTHAL EXHIBIT DUE TO CRANIAL SWELLING FROM THE EXCESSIVE WATER IN HER SKULL WHICH WILL INTURN BLOW UP LIKE A HOUSING BUBBLE ON WALLSTREET DOES AND SHE WILL BE IN DEFINITE NEED OF A STIMULUS PACKAGE TO CONTAIN THE FECES THAT IS POURING OUT OF HER MOUTH.
Thomas Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Yeh, JFK disagreed with that and sought to abolish the CIA….that didn’t work out too well and JFK was assassinated not much later.
Un-American B.I.T.C.H.A.S.S. Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
NOT! The C.I.A. is an instrument of destabilization around the world using global drug smuggling to finance its mass murder & mayhem, any true redblooded American would have absolutely nothing to do with them. Nice try TROLL!
October 25th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
and the princess cant even spell LOL
October 25th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Jaynee Germond for congress District 4 Oregon
http://www.germond2010.com/
October 25th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
INTERNATIONAL CRIME CARTEL IS EMERGING……………
Summit of ASEAN countrys
An economic union of South East Asia
The leaders of ASEAN members have agreed during their meeting to create a common economic space based on the European model. Myanmar indicated lightening for the relief dissident Suu Kyi.
By Bernd Musch-Borowska, ARD radio studio in Southeast Asia
25.10.2009 13:24 hour
With a solemn ceremony and the signing of numerous contracts and agreements is in the Thai seaside resort in Hua Hin the 15th ASEAN summit ended. The leaders of ten ASEAN member countries met with their counterparts from China, Japan and South Korea, India, Australia and New Zealand to discuss closer economic and political cooperation.
…
Japan had proposed the establishment of an East Asian union.
According to the ideas of Japanese Prime Minister should the U.S. play a significant role in the union, which among other by the Chinese representatives strucks at skepticism.
…
Human Rights without a mandate
On the first day of the summit, the ASEAN countries had set up a government commission on human rights. It shall keep supporting human rights in member countries of the Association of Southeast Asian states. But it has not a mandate to uphold human rights.
…
(Translated)
http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/asean158.html
October 25th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Relax guys i know 9/11 was an inside job im just winding you up
American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Oh dear god what’s wrong with me.
It’s coming back again. I see it, I feel it.
rich Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
you must be talking about the gonorhhea
Mare Mara Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Fuck off scum bag.
FUCK THE NWO Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Your not stable, sometimes you support us, sometimes you support satan. Whats wrong with you
Are you fighting against satan but can’t get rid of the beast? Or it too great/funny to leave satan?
Sam Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
stevejax Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Of course you know. You’re a Government Operative.
October 25th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
I wonder when the next US led attack against the US will be and when.
.
.
I say soon
October 25th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Fuck this prison planet. I’m pissed off. Stupid chemtrails. Grrrrr.
Mustafah Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Those are CONTRAILS my friend! Don’t believe everything you see! I don’t see birds dropping out of the sky or people getting sick, do you?
Just relax and try to do a little research on the new jet fuel additives and the effects this has on creating “persistant contrails”.
AJ Minion Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Well Mustabeenadumbfuck I have been sick numerous times from chemtrails. The gov. has come out and admitted to doing it because they think its going to help global climate change, thats the excuse for now anyway. The stuff they’re are spraying has been collected and examined and it is mostly barium. Really bad for humans and animals and plants. Maybe thats why you don’t see honeybees much anymore? You maybe a troll but you have to live here too. Think about what you are doing here. Is this the way to earn a living? I bet you drink and do alot of drugs just to deal with your conscience.
Mustafah Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Barium is a naturally occuring element that is an essential nutrient for bone development. You would have too ingest mass amounts of barium just to develop a good case of heartburn! If you have been “sick” numerous times lately, I would suggest checking your home thouroughly for mold or other harmful pathogens such as insect/rodent droppings. Obviously, you have a compromised immune system and would stand to benefit from a good detox program.
Honeybees? Maybe if the bee keepers stopped feeding their bee’s high fructose corn syrup (as a cheap alternative), they would stop dying!
No, I do not use drugs or alcohol, for I have been illuminated and am enpowered with the seventh peace of Selah – thank you!
YELLOWHAK1 Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 10:30 am
illuminated. using that word just outed you. wait…why am i even responding to your comment. moving on.
October 25th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
I have recieved word from cnp brothers jack mclamb and oliver north that operation wrapper is about to commence.
Long live the secret organizations and NWO.
hi i'm bob barr acnp member like dick cheney Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Lucifer, sweet Lucifer.
Chain-Chain Cheney Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
by the time they get around to prosecuting me for my crimes i’ll be dead and wrecking another world somewhere.
October 25th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
NOPE
I HAVEN’T FOUND ANYWHERE IN HISTORY WHERE THE MUSLIMS ATTACKED CHRISTIANITY !
it’s Americas fault …down with those greedy , dirty pigs …those damn capitalist ! down with free market .
Islam is a religion of peace , they only want to co exist man…smoke some dope man and expand you horizons …
didn’t you listen when the communist college professors told you the MAN was holding you down and that those greedy no good Americans and Israelis are to blame for everything in hte world ?
Long live communism !
http://www.youtube.com/user/1973Johnny2bad
October 25th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Watch for free:
Fall Of The Republic, Obama Deception, Endgame, Terror Storm, Loose Change, Aaron Russo’s Famous Interview (Must See), Citizen Investigation Team, Fabled Enemies, 911 Blueprint For Truth, and others all in full-length at my website.
http://www.joemarquis.com/videos.htm
I still encourage each and everyone to purchase the DVD’s to help keep the fight going.
October 25th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Soon Russia and China will have seen enough and invade middle east as well and world war 3 will begin killing billions of people. Lets not forget they are watching this unfold also and are waiting for weakness and a time to pounce. when they see an opportunity they will take it. It seems stupid to even think or believe or even niave to think they aren’t watching this unfold and are watching the hostile take over slowly of the middle east and are waiting for the time to pounce. They see this as a globalist ploy through the U.S. and U.N. to sieze control of the oil in the middle east and Russia and China will retaliate because their interest are at stake and they will defend it. These lucifarian globalists will be inciting a war of the worlds and I garrantee you this will happen and is inevitable. Both Russia and China are ratcheting up their militaries for a future response while these elitists are blinded by money, greed and power.
October 25th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Notice how when Dick Cheney comes out to speak in the media something else blows up around the world and Al Qaida is to blame? Wow what a coincidence! Cheney come out telling Obama to send the troops the General is asking for and when it falls on deaf ears more explosions. Man these criminals are getting more and more predictable every day. Folks our troops are never coming home they will see to it there will be no pullout in Iraq or Afgahnistan now it will flow into Pakistan and Iran watch and see
brad Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
The American troops have been overseas since 100 years.
OBAMA LAMA DING DONG Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
I know that but why send what you have left I would like to see all come home we are not the roman empire.
blame the USA first Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Are you sure about that ?
maybe you need a World History lesson , Or maybe just some good old American History without any of that liberal communism washed in ?
let me ask you this , are you islamic or a homosexual ….or just a doped up pothead who refuses to grow up ?
blame the USA first Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
…and the muslims have been trying to kill us for …oh ..I dunno ..5000 years or so …
the marines anthem is to the shores of Tripoli , but I don’t expect a pot head hippie to understand World history.
Mustafah Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
The Muslims have been the most persecuted people troughout history! Name one single conflict that was
‘STARTED’ by a Muslim?
If you study history, you will find that the Muslims have always been convenient scapegoats for power hungry regimes seeking world domination (Catholic church included).
On the other hand, the U.S. is responsible for instigating nearly every war in the 20th century, either directly or indirectly. Do you think that Muslim extremists are responsible for your 9-11 tragedy? Anthrax letters? Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction?
I didn’t think so!
Edward Tarr Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 6:53 am
Well said Mustafah.
Seven Blood Reply:
October 27th, 2009 at 12:29 am
hmmm about the same time as the foreign F’ED EH?-matter of fact just about all decline seems to be related
October 25th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
A test of intelligence for the “princess”… What does Mare Mara translate to in English?
AJ Minion Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
There has to be an existing level to be able to test it MM. I predict failure at any rate.
OBAMA LAMA DING DONG Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
“OPERATION Mare Mara” IS….
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN THE RESULTS ARE IN American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S WILL BE ABDUCTED AND TAKEN TO A F.E.M.A DETENTION FACILITY IMMEDIATELY TO BE WATER BOARDED CONTINUALLY AND UNMERCILESSLY TILL HER HEAD HAS BECOME AN AQUARIUM FOR SEA MONKEYS.
THEN SHE WILL BE PLACED ON EXHIBIT AT THE SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTE AT THE NEANDERTHAL EXHIBIT DUE TO CRANIAL SWELLING FROM THE EXCESSIVE WATER IN HER SKULL WHICH WILL INTURN BLOW UP LIKE A HOUSING BUBBLE ON WALLSTREET DOES AND SHE WILL BE IN DEFINITE NEED OF A STIMULUS PACKAGE TO CONTAIN THE FECES THAT IS POURING OUT OF HER MOUTH
October 25th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Rothschild says… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....rofilepage
October 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
I’m NOT J.A.P., but roughly translated does Mare Mara mean: ‘evil female spirit of the sea’?
October 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Is American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S code for Whore OF BABYLON??????HUMMMMMM………[or not]…
Yeee Haw Geddy Up MotherFlunkers Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
No but the BABYLONIAN TALMUD people and there supporters are
322skull Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
I hope you got you 10 pieces of silver for that one….[or not] Either way you serve your MASTER WELL…….VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV…………..NOW BOW TO YOUR MASTER……………..VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV Again BOW VVVVVVVVVVVVVV……You can not hide behind a name>>>>>>>>>NOW BOW again………….VVVVVVVVVVVVVVV You serve Your master well…………..You can not hide behind a name…………..BOW…VVV…You can not hide behind a name…VVV…NOW bow AGAIN…vvv…
Repeal_The_Constitution_For_Mossad Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 7:15 am
She’s the future employment of America. Any minute now she will chant “yes we can” better than a hare krishna chanting hare krishna.
October 25th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Anyone else thinks that this EX-CIA agent will end up…missing?
October 25th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
It’s so obvious…. they are trying to push for a war with Iran…. to alleviate Israel’s depression.
hi i'm paul graig roberts a cnp member like john bolton Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
If you’re feeling blue and you don’t know what to do
Buy teddy gold, buy nwo gold
If you’re cracked in the head and you want to die
instead, buy teddy gold, buy nwo gold
Screwball Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
Is that the same John Bolton who wants to nuke everyone?….. maybe even himself..
October 25th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN THE RESULTS ARE IN American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S WILL BE ABDUCTED AND TAKEN TO A F.E.M.A DETENTION FACILITY IMMEDIATELY TO BE WATER BOARDED CONTINUALLY AND UNMERCILESSLY TILL HER HEAD HAS BECOME AN AQUARIUM FOR SEA MONKEYS.
THEN SHE WILL BE PLACED ON EXHIBIT AT THE SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTE AT THE NEANDERTHAL EXHIBIT DUE TO CRANIAL SWELLING FROM THE EXCESSIVE WATER IN HER SKULL WHICH WILL INTURN BLOW UP AND BURST LIKE A HOUSING BUBBLE ON WALLSTREET DOES AND SHE WILL BE IN DEFINITE NEED OF A STIMULUS PACKAGE TO CONTAIN THE FECES THAT IS POURING OUT OF HER MOUTH
Life Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
AMEN BROTHER BUT SHE KNOWS SHE IS JEWISH
October 25th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Lemme put her on the stroll for a few days first so I can make a few bucks?
October 25th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
We are forecasting mass bank runs and panic around Feb. March of 2009.
Wait a minute…….
Most of you guys fell for that one too. OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!! QUICK!!! GOLD GOLD GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
October 25th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
introducing the new global climate change czar of the planet!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related
hi i'm jack mclamb a cnp member like kathleed rothchild Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Thanks brother obama.
hi i'm jack mclamb a cnp member like kathleed rothchild Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
I’m also an old dumb fuck. I meant Kathleen (n, not d)
hi i'm jack mclamb a cnp member like kathleen rothchild Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
haha, I’m a real dumb fuck. Oh as long as I’m posting again I might as well tell you guys that the story I told on my show about how secret people are putting stickers on mail boxes that indicate who gets rounded up was a fear mongering pile of bull shit to scare people into not getting involved in changing things for the better. But I’m just doing what my nwo masters tell me to.
October 25th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Long live the secret organizations!
October 25th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
I think some people have their sarcasm meter shut off for the day…maybe permenantly. Why do we get all huffy and result to slanderous comments at our fellow brothers and sisters when someone simply “types” how they feel. I guess soe of the people who comment suffer from sense of humor loss.
Just Ignore the Trolls Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Agreed GMacD and to add my 2 cents (all a dollar is worth these days)
It makes me laugh to see all these people get sucked into fighting the Trolls…
She may think she’s a princess, but we all know she’s a troll waiting to be kissed….
She wants you to fight her, she wants an argument, THAT’S her JOB!!!
Ignore Her… and she will eventually go away….
GMacD Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 12:25 am
here here
Myself Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Although a lot of truth and good information about the NWO is on this site there are also very dangerous and extreme emotional people here.
This is the alex jones movement. You do not post your opinions. You do not post how you feel about things. You’re duty is to worship the alex/paul gods. You obey alex and do not disagree with the views that are expressed at infowars. You do not disagree with the guests that come on the alex show. Never mind that most of them are secret organization members and traitor filth.
INGSOC!
INGSOC!
INGSOC!
October 25th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Hey what happened to Jones today? He said thered be a Sunday Show?
National Emergency Declared Yesterday??
Hmm…. Maybe He’s already left for samoa or fiji
Neocon Narc Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
He is spending time with family since he released his film.
But maybe him and Kenny boy are having drinks in the Bahamas.
I know. It sucks when he and Jason play reruns.
But I am sure you can troll him tomorrow.
Tah Tah…
October 25th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
I wrote this 911 article for people who haven’t been exposed to 911 truth and who aren’t likely to take the innitiative to research it themselves. I believe we can still reach those people. They are not going to go digging into 911 at this late date, but if they take fifteen minutes to read the article it will leave nagging questions in their mind that will not be easily dismissed.
People who are now on the sidelines can still be brought into the game. They may never be first string but they could at least become supporters. More than anything, people just need a little help to wake up from their propaganda enduced stupor. I would like to see people all over the world print it and use it as a tool, as a handout, to put on windshields etc.
I know my little article is preaching to the choir, but it isn’t meant for the choir. It is intended for the uninitiated, and it works very well for waking up even the disinterested.
http://www.thegoodseed.com/Wha.....On%209.pdf
October 25th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
If someone posts something that is in anyway critical on any level of the prevailing views at infowars then that person is obviously a paid troll.
There I just proved it.
blame the USA first Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
I’m not a troll, I am cultured in antiquities ,World History and my ancestors.I know who founded America and for which it stands, do you ?
I do not view the world through a hippies dope smoking clouded lens .
http://www.youtube.com/user/1973Johnny2bad
let me guess , you hate obama , but love that he will legalize weed?
your a communist and do not even know …I challenge you to prove I am a paid troll ..
blame America first Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
hello ?
I’m here ..come prove I’m a troll.
where ya at hippie ?
shameful most of you would follow a communist just to smoke your weed.
Myself Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
I was being sarcastic and showing the low level of brain activity that is displayed by 90% of the Neanderthals that are Alex’s sheep you bone head.
you know how they just throw around troll this and shill that whenever they hear something that conflicts with what alex programed them with.
[Editor's note: From a super "full of myself" ultra programed automated Shill/Troll. He typed the above while his eyeballs were spinning in his head watching mind sucking gladiatorial sports on the tube... "Shill Alert"...~ JTCoyoté
thnk God they aren't all on dope Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
http://www.youtube.com/user/1973Johnny2bad
thank goodness ….someone who is actually educated ….these pot heads think the militray is against them ….it’s a shame our schools have been infested with liberalism/communism
we have lost 2-3 generations of young people.
peace through strength ,
superstar in disguise
blame America first Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
I’m here …
where are you at ?
hey doper hippie boy …communist come out wherever you are
October 25th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Bob Baer, the “ex” CIA agent..seems to have awfully good contacts for an “ex”..appears on the “Progressive” Ian Masters show on Pacifica’s KPFK….where Masters UNMERCIFULLY puts down 911Truth…comparing people who question the Commission Report to the Reverend Hagee….this is how it is done, folks.
thnk God they aren't all on dope Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
how whats done?
damn greedy Americans ….stopping the communist revolution
down with those greedy pigs ….now let’s go light up some man and expand our minds ..that all seeing eye is watching us man …dude ..bro …
God help us if the body has been indoctrinated …let’s hope he is still an undercover Navy Seal -_- oops ..did I slip
http://www.youtube.com/user/1973Johnny2bad
October 25th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Have you seen the movie from the 80’s, “Spies Like Us”, with Chevy Chase and Dan Akroyd. They are the Pentagon, second team, compartmentalized patsies on a black op, false flag…where they get dropped into Afganistan, come across the Northern Alliance, talk about how the CIA created these groups, infiltrate info Russia to capture a Russian nuke, use codes to redirct the missile to hit the U.S. in order to test a U.S. made lazer weapon, and if the lazer failed to hit the incoming nuke, then they would start WW3. It’s a comedy, but there it is, in your face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL9-7AeFD5w
thnk God they aren't all on dope Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
it’s a shame our schools have been infested with liberalism/communism
we have lost 2-3 generations of young people.
October 25th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
They live http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo2SX5HP9WY
October 26th, 2009 at 2:21 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-MNGC53jhg
October 26th, 2009 at 2:56 am
Deus Caritas Est
Vini Vidi Vici
alex jones you heathen …..you sob
so , whose church dd you get donated to you this friday ?
call me a pagen lucifer worshipper ?
God forgive him for he knows not what he does.
October 26th, 2009 at 3:00 am
you might as well be a muslim , jones ..or a kkk nazi …which one ?
let’s here you talk like your pal rivero did friday jones…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ0jiq9IiNs
The pagan influence fallacy is committed when one charges that a particular religion, belief, or practice is of pagan origin or has been influenced by paganism and is therefore false, wrong, tainted, or to be repudiated. In this minimal form, the pagan influence fallacy is a subcase of the genetic fallacy, which improperly judges a thing based on its history or origins rather than on its own merits (e.g., “No one should use this medicine because it was invented by a drunkard and adulterer”).
Very frequently, the pagan influence fallacy is committed in connection with other fallacies, most notably the post hoc ergo proper hoc (”After this, therefore because of this”) fallacy—e.g., “Some ancient pagans did or believed something millennia ago, therefore any parallel Christian practices and beliefs must be derived from that source.” Frequently, a variant on this fallacy is committed in which, as soon as a parallel with something pagan is noted, it is assumed that the pagan counterpart is the more ancient. This variant might be called the similis hoc ergo propter hoc (”Similar to this, therefore because of this”) fallacy.
When the pagan influence fallacy is encountered, it should be pointed out that it is, in fact, a fallacy. To help make this clear to a religious person committing it, it may be helpful to illustrate with cases where the pagan influence fallacy could be committed against his own position (e.g., the practice of circumcision was practiced in the ancient world by a number of peoples—including the Egyptians—but few Jews or Christians would say that its divinely authorized use in Israel was an example of “pagan corruption”).
To help a secular person see the fallacy involved, one might point to a parallel case of the genetic fallacy involving those of his perspective (e.g., “Nobody should accept this particular scientific theory because it was developed by an atheist”).
Whenever one encounters a proposed example of pagan influence, one should demand that its existence be properly documented, not just asserted. The danger of accepting an inaccurate claim is too great. The amount of misinformation in this area is great enough that it is advisable never to accept a reported parallel as true unless it can be demonstrated from primary source documents or through reliable, scholarly secondary sources. After receiving documentation supporting the claim of a pagan parallel, one should ask a number of questions:
1. Is there a parallel? Frequently, there is not. The claim of a parallel may be erroneous, especially when the documentation provided is based on an old or undisclosed source.
For example: “The Egyptians had a trinity. They worshiped Osiris, Isis, and Horus, thousands of years before the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were known” (Robert Ingersoll, Why I Am an Agnostic). This is not true. The Egyptians had an Ennead—a pantheon of nine major gods and goddesses. Osiris, Isis, and Horus were simply three divinities in the pantheon who were closely related by marriage and blood (not surprising, since the Ennead itself was an extended family) and who figured in the same myth cycle. They did not represent the three persons of a single divine being (the Christian understanding of the Trinity). The claim of an Egyptian trinity is simply wrong. There is no parallel.
2. Is the parallel dependent or independent? Even if there is a pagan parallel, that does not mean that there is a causal relationship involved. Two groups may develop similar beliefs, practices, and artifacts totally independently of each other. The idea that similar forms are always the result of diffusion from a common source has long been rejected by archaeology and anthropology, and for very good reason: Humans are similar to each other and live in similar (i.e., terrestrial) environments, leading them to have similar cultural artifacts and views.
For example, Fundamentalists have made much of the fact that Catholic art includes Madonna and Child images and that non-Christian art, all over the world, also frequently includes mother and child images. There is nothing sinister in this. The fact is that, in every culture, there are mothers who hold their children! Sometimes this gets represented in art, including religious art, and it especially is used when a work of art is being done to show the motherhood of an individual. Mother-with child-images do not need to be explained by a theory of diffusion from a common, pagan religious source (such as Hislop’s suggestion that such images stem from representations of Semiramis holding Tammuz). One need look no further than the fact that mothers holding children is a universal feature of human experience and a convenient way for artists to represent motherhood.
3. Is the parallel antecedent or consequent? Even if there is a pagan parallel that is causally related to a non-pagan counterpart, this does not establish which gave rise to the other. It may be that the pagan parallel is a late borrowing from a non-pagan source. Frequently, the pagan sources we have are so late that they have been shaped in reaction to Jewish and Christian ideas. Sometimes it is possible to tell that pagans have been borrowing from non-pagans. Other times, it cannot be discerned who is borrowing from whom (or, indeed, if anyone is borrowing from anyone).
For example: The ideas expressed in the Norse Elder Edda about the end and regeneration of the world were probably influenced by the teachings of Christians with whom the Norse had been in contact for centuries (H. A. Guerber, The Norsemen, 339f).
4. Is the parallel treated positively, neutrally, or negatively? Even if there is a pagan parallel to a non-pagan counterpart, that does not mean that the item or concept was enthusiastically or uncritically accepted by non-pagans. One must ask how they regarded it. Did they regard it as something positive, neutral, or negative?
For example: Circumcision and the symbol of the cross might be termed “neutral” Jewish and Christian counterparts to pagan parallels. It is quite likely that the early Hebrews first encountered the idea of circumcision among neighboring non-Jewish peoples, but that does not mean they regarded it as a
religiously good thing for non-Jews to do. Circumcision was regarded as a religiously good thing only for Jews because for them it symbolized a special covenant with the one true God (Gen. 17). The Hebrew scriptures are silent in a religious appraisal of non-Jewish circumcision; they seemed indifferent to the fact that some pagans circumcised.
Similarly, the early Christians who adopted the cross as a symbol did not do so because it was a pagan religious symbol (the pagan cultures which use it as a symbol, notably in East Asia and the Americas, had no influence on the early Christians). The cross was used as a Christian symbol because Christ died on a cross—his execution being regarded as a bad thing in itself, in fact, an infinite injustice—but one from which he brought life for the world. Christians did not adopt it because it was a pagan symbol they liked and wanted to copy.
Examples of negative parallels are often found in Genesis. For instance, the Flood narrative (Gen. 6-9) has parallels to pagan flood stories, but is written so that it refutes ideas in them. Thus Genesis attributes the flood to human sin (6:5-7), not overpopulation, as Atrahasis’ Epic and the Greek poem Cypria did (I. Kikawada & A. Quinn). The presence of flood stories in cultures around the world does not undermine the validity of the biblical narrative, but lends it more credence.
Criticism, refutation, and replacement are also the principles behind modern holidays being
celebrated to a limited extent around the same time as former pagan holidays. In actuality, reports of Christian holidays coinciding with pagan ones are often inaccurate (Christmas does not occur on Saturnalia, for example). However, to the extent the phenomenon occurs at all, Christian holidays were introduced to provide a wholesome, non-pagan alternative celebration, which thus critiques and rejects the pagan holiday.
This is the same process that leads Fundamentalists who are offended at the (inaccurately alleged) pagan derivation of Halloween to introduce alternative “Reformation Day” celebrations for their children. (This modern Protestant holiday is based on the fact that the Reformation began when Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the church door in Wittenberg, Germany, on October 31, 1517.) Another Fundamentalist substitution for Halloween has been “harvest festivals” that celebrate the season of autumn and the gathering of crops. These fundamentalist substitutions are no more “pagan” than the celebrations of days or seasons that may have been introduced by earlier Christians.
October 26th, 2009 at 3:20 am
Many will stand in judgment because they followed man-made traditions over the Word of God; most without ever even knowing it.
and most of you hippies dope smokers are taking place in a communist revolution ..if you haven’t figured that out yet either ….
fucking blame America first communist …
October 26th, 2009 at 4:17 am
http://911essentials.com concurs:
“They will do whatever we let them get away with.” ~ Joseph Heller
blame america first Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 4:36 am
heh ..you anti american commies never seem to amaze me …
you quote this hag heller ?
How about telling the Story of of the battle of Chichi jima ?
When George bush was shot down in combat flying a mission and resued by an american submarine ?
I guess that doesn’t fit the peoples revolution now does it? got your marley tee and a big joint …gonna fight the man …the man got you down ..the white Israeli oppressor holding you down man ?
I have a close on all you communist here .The the all seeing eye of God is watching all of you.
Me and My partners will be watching you cockroaches .
http://www.youtube.com/user/1973Johnny2bad
Corporate Death Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 9:24 am
Get off the crack pipe Blame America First…
“anti american commies never seem to amaze me”
Life Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
You know your Jewish, please leave and stop your government mind control.
October 26th, 2009 at 4:34 am
Sounds like the Christians in Action (CIA) were promoting world peace nad doing their bit in nation building.
blame america first Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 5:15 am
nope, try Marine corp cockroach.
I dare you hippies to take arms up against the US military .
I’m personally watching you filthy treasonous rats.
http://www.youtube.com/user/1973Johnny2bad
October 26th, 2009 at 5:30 am
Before I go , I wanted to tell you cockroaches one last thing…
The NWO is not your worst enemy,NOT as long as I am living.
Nance Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 7:04 am
blame america-You’re PART OF THE PROBLEM. You’re working for the NWO and don’t even know it Then again, maybe you do. If that is the case, may God have mercy on your soul.
Rattlesnake Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 8:30 am
just shut your pie hole. I am related to these pieces of trash and they are out to take down America. So get your freaking head out of your ass. These evil bastards are using the troops. God -you are such a blooming moron.
Rattlesnake Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 8:31 am
I meant to tell “blame America” to shut his pie hole.
Corporate Death Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 9:26 am
corp cockroach…
Again, take the crack pipe and pills and get them out of your life. Quit the drugs.
Corporate Death Reply:
October 26th, 2009 at 9:27 am
blame america first…
stop beating your girlfriend…
October 26th, 2009 at 6:36 am
Giggity giggity goo.
October 26th, 2009 at 8:23 am
why would the us bomb iran? the us has five proxy armies surrounding iran, engaged in terrorism, and a cia front masquerading as a fundamentalist islamic party inside iran. besides, if the us actually invaded it might piss off the kurds, jundallah, sunni extremists, khuzestani terrorist cells and everyone else who wants the glory for themselves.
October 26th, 2009 at 8:27 am
At least most of you don’t have Satanist after you. It sucks having skull and bones relatives. I would trade places with a normal person in a heart beat. I can’t so I wait and watch my 6.Thank God for guns. I pack 24/7. The Satanist will NOT get me.
October 26th, 2009 at 8:40 am
American P.R.I.N.C.E.S.S Reply:
October 25th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
We need to support our military by flushing out any Al-Qaeda & Jundullah Terrorist including its supporters
DEAR PRINCESS , would you suggest that we flush out the whole US Government ? They support many many terrorists groups , including Al-Qaeda & Jundullah Terrorists.
October 26th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Bo Dietl-Talks about the NEW WORLD ORDER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_DvhHaNVKU
October 27th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Al-Qaeda is CIA, Jandulla is CIA, Bin Laden was CIA and well nice big business partner of a lot of important americans…….. if it were for true, it wouldnt have been this impossible a wipe out. the recurring set-backs, losses, and unsuccessful everything of the worlds most powerfil nation’s most powerful millitary with its most sophisticated weaponry, rather seems to be a facade……
October 2009, 24 us soldiers killed sofar, a taste of its own bitter medicine maybe…….
October 28th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
All white americans are actually jewish one way or another
October 28th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Over many years we have all been lied to by our Governments, but not just our Governments but many religous leaders. Many things we have been taught are not even in Scripture and millions have swallowed so many lies by these false prophets. If you are a truth seeker please visit the following web site and take the time to read some of the articles, you will be shocked.
http://www.2besaved.com
Blessings
Ben