The Theory of Everything
December 10, 2008
Editor’s note: Infowars and Alex Jones would like to thank the blogger “The Theory of Everything” for compiling this transcript in short order.
ZAKARIA: General Gul, you know that the United States has given four names to the United Nations of ISI officers whom it would like to place on an international terrorist list. You are one of those four names.What’s your reaction to that.
GEN. HAMID GUL, FORMER PAKISTANI INTELLIGENCE CHIEF (via broadband): I think this is a frame-up, a total frame-up. I have – I have my own (ph) voice. And I raise. I have a position which I express freely, openly. I’m like an open book.This is preposterous. This is wrong. This is fallacious. And if my government does not …
ZAKARIA: What are the charges against you?
GUL: … XX me, they …
ZAKARIA: What are the charges against you?
GUL: Their charges are that I am helping the Taliban and al Qaeda. And what – this is so generalized. And particularly, there is the mention of Sarajo Din Nohani (ph), whom I have never seen in my life. I don’t know who he is. I knew his father, Jalal ud-Din Nohani (ph), way back when I was D.G. ISI. But that’s been a long time ago.I have nothing to do – I have no means to help them. But, of course, my position is that Americans have aggressed in Afghanistan. And whoever is resisting, the resistance there is justifiable.So, that is my position. I will maintain that position. If that becomes the basis of dubbing me as terrorist, then I would say, it’s all right.But other than that, to say that I’m practically involved in any kind of help – absolutely wrong. I am not that at all.
ZAKARIA: General Gul, when you read about these attacks in Mumbai, and you see – when you read about the attacks in Mumbai, this is a three-stage, amphibious assault in which the boats were commandeered, the captain and crew then killed.They maintained radio silence. They split up into pairs. They know their locations. They make a few false targets to draw the first responders there.This seems like a military operation.Isn’t it likely that there was some special forces or intelligence assistance given to these attackers?
GUL: Indeed. I think that this was a very sophisticated operation. There is no doubt about it. It has rocked the – and I have all my sympathies for India – they rock this huge country for 72 hours. And they really don’t know how to react and respond to this.But when you look at the full spectrum of possibilities, who could have done it, then one knows that Samjhauta Express was a similar case, in which Pakistan ISI was accused. But it turned out that it was the militant Hindus themselves who had killed 68 passengers in that train, and that it was an inside job.Now Colonel Srikant Purohit, who is a serving army officer, he has been caught in this particular case. And the whole thing has turned around.So, obviously, there is an inside job.
ZAKARIA: If it turns out, as the one surviving terrorist says, that these people were trained in Pakistan in four separate locations, do you think it would be retired ISI people? Who would be training these groups?
GUL: Not necessarily. It is a question of motivation only. If somebody is motivated, then it is – because what kind of weapons did they use? That’s very important. They used flashing (ph) calls (ph). They used the hand grenades. And this is – this doesn’t require a great deal of training. And, of course, these weapons are also available in the open market.If the evidence is there, then I am one of the people who would say, yes, India really has been done a great deal of wrong. We have said – and Pakistan government policy has been very clearly enunciated – that we will punish them. Bring the evidence, we’ll take them to task. But so far, no bodies have been shown, no faces have been shown. And this man has not also been brought before the cameras.I think the evidence has to be, because you cannot, on the basis of accusation alone, start taking actions which can unleash historical kind of changes. And this would be a watershed in the relationship between India and Pakistan, and we have to be very careful about it.
ZAKARIA: But are you confident that the ISI does not have links, formal or informal, with Lashkar-e-Taiba?
GUL: I have no linkages with them. But I do understand the character of an organization. It’s a highly disciplined organization, unlike the other organizations. Their political appointees can be infiltrated.In the ISI, it is only the uniformed personnel who come and serve for two to three years. And then they revert back to their parent services. So, they are bread-and-butter. Their career advancement, their promotion chances – they all lie with the three armed services, that is, navy, army and the air force.So, there is one organization, intelligence organization, which would remain absolutely on the line. That would be the ISI.Unless you say that, OK, the army is behind it, the Pakistan government’s policy is this. ISI cannot do a maverick job like this. It is unbelievable.
ZAKARIA: The president of Pakistan, Mr. Zardari, the day after the attacks, said that he would send the head of the ISI to India to cooperate. The next day it was revealed that, effectively, the army chief of staff had overruled him.Is that appropriate for the elected head of state to be overruled by the head of the army?
GUL: Well, I think it was a good thing that they withdrew their decision. And besides, sending the D.G. ISI is something totally – Indians should not have demanded this, and Pakistan should not have accepted to send him, because it was only an accusation at that time.And it was not a question of cooperation, it was a question of interrogating, summoning him. In fact, the word "summon" was used. And that was an affront to the national honor of Pakistan and that of the Pakistan armed forces.
ZAKARIA: Do you think we should be thinking of al Qaeda as a terrorist group? I know that there was a conference in January 2001, which you attended, at which you felt that bin Laden was better described as a religious warrior, and should not actually be thought of as a terrorist.
GUL: No. We said, unless the evidence is brought up against him, then he is not a terrorist. It’s wrong. 9/11′s full evidence has still not emerged. It is still shrouded in mystery.A lot of people have a lot of misgivings about that. And it’s not only me. I think a lot of people in America would be thinking the same way. There are scientists, there are scholars, who have written articles on it.So, I think to dub a man as terrorist – because I know, I heard him twice say on radio, or something like that, and I think it was Osama – not only that, but Mullah Omar also said that he did not believe that Osama had carried out that act. So, that is still a mystery, and it needs to be resolved. Americans have still to set up a proper commission, an inquiry commission, into this event. I think that’s very important. And I think President-designate Obama would do well to set up an inquiry commission into this.
ZAKARIA: What is your hunch as to who did – who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks?
GUL: Well, I have been on record, and I said it is the Zionists or (ph) the neocons. They have done it. It was an inside job.And they wanted to go on the world conquerors. They were looking upon it as an opportunity window, when the Muslim world was lying prostrate. Russia was nowhere in sight. China was still not an economic giant that is has turned out to be.And they thought that this was a good time to go and fill (ph) those strategic areas, which are still lying without any American presence. And, of course, to control the energy tap of the world.Presently, it is the Middle East, and in future it is going to be Central Asia. So, there are many, many XX. And, of course …
ZAKARIA: But you think …
GUL: … XX.
ZAKARIA: But you think who would be …
GUL: That’s what I also think, yes.
ZAKARIA: Who is at the heart of – who do you think was at the heart of plotting 9/11?
GUL: At the – it’s very difficult, really. I wouldn’t point my finger at it.But I think it was planned in America. And at least one knows that it was done in Germany, as far as the reports go.But I think the heart of planning was inside America, because the job was done there. But not a single person so far has been captured, caught, interrogated inside America, even though this entire episode took place there.
ZAKARIA: But you’ve said that the people behind it were the Zionists, neocon conspiracy. Do you mean by that American Jews? Do you mean Israel?
GUL: No Israel. I will not – because Jews are also divided into – not all Jews are bad. Of course, there are a lot of things common between Jews and Muslims.In fact, they are the closest to us religion-wise, because some of their scriptures are respected by us. Their prophets are our prophets. They have the injunctions in Torah are very much similar to injunctions in the Holy Quran. So, there are things which are very common.But there are those people who are very ambitious, who have a certain agenda of their own. And I think they have turned the world upside-down, because of those ambitions or their fears.So, fear and ambitions are two things which have come together as far as Zionists are concerned. And they are trying to drive the policies of America. And unfortunately, the American people are suffering because of that.
December 9, 2008: Alex Jones Interview
5-8 minutes – tragedy in Bombay and 9/11 inside jobs
"Well at the moment, we have to look at this as a great human tragedy that took place in Mumbai (Bombay). I sympathize with India, they’ve been rocked a bit badly. And the response is a bit nervous. They want to go to war with Pakistan. if Pakistan does not behave, or does not handle whatever they want from us. they’ve given a list of people. but I think there’s been a longer of Indians accusing Pakistan whenever something like this happens. and they always turn out to be wrong. of course Pakistan is willing to cooperate and I think that’s a good position that president alzwary has taken, that you provide the evidence, and we try them out, we will arrest them, we will put them through trial, and you can come and watch. let the international cameras come and see. there should be transparency, open trial, and if that doesn’t satisfy you, what else will? so this is a situation where we stand today, where there is an ominous threat from India and America seems to be quietly patting them on the back and asking Pakistan to do whatever India is demanding. this is an unfair position, because India is not like America, America demanded from Pakistan after 9/11 to cooperate anybody
- A d v e r t i s e m e n t
that Pakistan could lay their hands on. 700 or so people were caught in Pakistan they war sent to gonthrama bay, to bagram, and to gucanpar yale, and nothing came out, except Muhammad, is the only one who is being tried for that case, all others have been let off. to get innocent people like that, just because you accuse them and you don’t even provide the evidence, to pick them up and throw them in jail, this is not on, the human values that particularly democracy upholds and talks about. so I think Pakistan offer isn’t good enough and today Pakistan cracked down on some of the defunct organization and in fact these were banned in year 2000 and through immediately after 911 but there could be some maverick elements among them who I won’t rule out who could carry out on their own or in conjunction with some other elements some kind of atrocities which I will not rule out. "
10-14 minutes – 9/11 inside job
"Are you talking about 9/11? Well, I have my own reasons, you know, rodnolan was a senior reporter here. I think he was based in Islamabad at that time, and he came to me immediately after 911, and his version that I put out was given to Newsweek and unfortunately it was blocked, but it appeared on the internet on the site of Newsweek and you can see it, I think it’s dated 16 or 17th of 2001, and in that I had said the same thing, and I maintain my position. a. that 9/11 took place on American soil, not a single person was caught inside America, even though for doing such a job, I think a huge amount of logistic support is required in the area where such operation is carried out. secondly, the air traffic control, when they ordered 4 aircraft were giving some direction going from east to coast, to west coast where they were headed they started going in different direction. and it is quite amazing that for a l9ong period of time air traffic control did not report this. nor did the us. airforce act in time. if one were to calculate from the 1st flight that it took off from Logan, where the f-16 where it took off from Langley which is ciao headquarters, instead of one of the operational bases where many of them are available in that area. and then a single aircraft never takes off because we’re told wherever the aircraft is scrambled, it’s scrambled in twos. and that time that it took was enormous, it was 112 minutes, 112 minutes is a very long time in which to act. was the us air force sleeping and if so, which heads were rolled. 2nd it was a huge intelligence failure, and no heads have been rolled, nobody has been taken to task, not a single person has resigned for this . 3rdly, the act should have been rehashed, turned inside out, yet nothing has happened. and finally, how come this is a coincidence that 4 transponders did not work, and it is not possible, the direction is changed and it is not noted. 2ndly, the U.S. air force, has the ability, because in the past whenever a plane has been hijacked, within 7 minutes a plane is on the side of the aircraft, in this case, it did not happen. the us. alert system is so high and so sophisticated that if a missile was to take off from Moscow and head towards new York, it takes about 18 minutes, and the us. airforce and missile system is supposed to intercept it within 9 minutes, that means on the Atlantic or pacific it must stop that missile from coming in. the missile system is in place but it did not work and nobody tried to question this. lastly no inquiry has been held formally into the incident. unfortunately, so the whole world has been turned upside down, so many people have been killed American economy is going into a meltdown and everything has gone wrong with the world and yet no formal inquiry has been held by the us. gov.t , so I really don’t’ know there are so many question that hang in the balance. and then to top it all, they say that Amoud who took training with a light aircraft in the army for 6 months that he could have maneuvered a jumbo of 757 from a height of where it was traveling of 9,000 and it came within seconds to a height of 1,000 and then went straight into its target, this is not possible for a person who has been trained on a light aircraft to do this. and then there’s no mention of 2nd aircraft. so threes a number of things which remain unanswered whenever a jo8urnalist comes and visit me here and I ask them these question. that why haven’t you taken the answer about these things. they say that patriotic act comes in the way and we are not supposed to ask such question. "
16-18 minutes- why is the us./Israeli gov’ts seeking dominance
"Well I think that after the cold war when Reaganomics it was known as, it was known that inflation was very high and the domestic issues had to be addressed. but bill Clinton administration they amassed a lot of money and the American economy went booming and he left a lot of money and the hot war cold warriors, they came in and the found that the situation was ready and they had a lot of money and resources and they looked at the bankers of the world for which there was an opportunity/window , the Muslim world was lying prostrate, Russia was not picking up from its fallen position, china was not ready yet, therefore they looked at it as an opportunity to go and do the following, and in this , I’m a soldier, and I know that there has to be a single aim, but they have =mixed up the aims, and they have botched up everything. first they said that they would go into strategic areas, where there was no us presence before. threaten the western Asia and south Asia where there was no America physical presence. they had to keep the Chinese off from getting the middle east. they had to get their hands on the energy tap of the world which presently lies in the middle east, but in future it will be in central Asia, and so Afghanistan is the gateway into central Asia, and finally to suppress any resistance, particularly which could threaten the state of Israel. now that is where they , instead of fulfilling ht American objective, they started, pursuing the Israel objective and that is where they went wrong. you have to pick up a single aim. this is the first principle of war, and I don’t know why the generals and politicians of America could be so naive and ignorant that they could start maligning in and they could go into this war without wisdom, without particular preparation and without the American support behind them. because if they had gone to war and asked for support from the American people they would never have given them that support and this was the pretext that they created."