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  • Krugman: Blame the Savers for the Bust

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    Bill Anderson
    LRC Blog
    March 2, 2009

    It is Monday morning, and time for the semi-weekly howler from Paul Krugman, who rarely disappoints. Today, he tells us about the evils of saving money. Yes, Peter Schiff, saving. (Schiff is telling us that capital comes from saving, and the development of new capital is paramount in growing an economy. But, Schiff does not have a newly-minted Nobel Prize in Economic Science given by the Swedish central bank, so what would Schiff know, anyway? Hail the wisdom of the Nobel winner, Paul Krugman!!)

    Krugman plays detective and solves the mystery of the crisis, and finds that it is due to those Asians saving money. His source? None other than Ben Bernanke, who everyone knows has inherited this mess and now is valiantly fighting against the Forces of Reaction and Capitalism and Sound Money.

    The speech (given by Ben Bernanke), titled “The Global Saving Glut and the U.S. Current Account Deficit,” offered a novel explanation for the rapid rise of the U.S. trade deficit in the early 21st century. The causes, argued Mr. Bernanke, lay not in America but in Asia.

    In the mid-1990s, he pointed out, the emerging economies of Asia had been major importers of capital, borrowing abroad to finance their development. But after the Asian financial crisis of 1997-98 (which seemed like a big deal at the time but looks trivial compared with what’s happening now), these countries began protecting themselves by amassing huge war chests of foreign assets, in effect exporting capital to the rest of the world.

    The result was a world awash in cheap money, looking for somewhere to go.

    • A d v e r t i s e m e n t
    • efoods
    Most of that money went to the United States — hence our giant trade deficit, because a trade deficit is the flip side of capital inflows. But as Mr. Bernanke correctly pointed out, money surged into other nations as well. In particular, a number of smaller European economies experienced capital inflows that, while much smaller in dollar terms than the flows into the United States, were much larger compared with the size of their economies.

    Still, much of the global saving glut did end up in America. Why?

    Mr. Bernanke cited “the depth and sophistication of the country’s financial markets (which, among other things, have allowed households easy access to housing wealth).” Depth, yes. But sophistication? Well, you could say that American bankers, empowered by a quarter-century of deregulatory zeal, led the world in finding sophisticated ways to enrich themselves by hiding risk and fooling investors.

    And wide-open, loosely regulated financial systems characterized many of the other recipients of large capital inflows. This may explain the almost eerie correlation between conservative praise two or three years ago and economic disaster today. “Reforms have made Iceland a Nordic tiger,” declared a paper from the Cato Institute. “How Ireland Became the Celtic Tiger” was the title of one Heritage Foundation article; “The Estonian Economic Miracle” was the title of another. All three nations are in deep crisis now.

    So, Detective Krugman zeroes in on the source of the crisis: saving money!

    If you want to know where the global crisis came from, then, think of it this way: we’re looking at the revenge of the glut.

    And the saving glut is still out there. In fact, it’s bigger than ever, now that suddenly impoverished consumers have rediscovered the virtues of thrift and the worldwide property boom, which provided an outlet for all those excess savings, has turned into a worldwide bust.

    One way to look at the international situation right now is that we’re suffering from a global paradox of thrift: around the world, desired saving exceeds the amount businesses are willing to invest. And the result is a global slump that leaves everyone worse off.

    So that’s how we got into this mess. And we’re still looking for the way out.

    What is unstated here is that Krugman sees our salvation in unleashing inflation. The best way to destroy savings is to inflate the currency to where savings are obliterated in a mass of paper. People are forced either to "buy now" or to purchase assets like gold which will hold or increase their value relative to rapidly-devaluing paper.

    Of course, whenever Krugman wants to score a point or two, he channels John Maynard Keynes. He does not mention his idol by name, but here we have it: inflate, inflate, inflate!

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    Comment Rules

    76 Responses to “Krugman: Blame the Savers for the Bust”

    1. lol Says:

      umm its really quite simple start a petition to get Bernanke out of the chair every single one of us can form a civil law suit against these people we see screwing up the system, once there’s massive filings on these people the Courts would have no choice but to look into these matters not alone the FBI.

      We also have the choice of reporting these guys to Internal Affairs.

      Is it me or does it seem like this generation of know it all economists just love talking out their asses with predictions which are basically the same as prophecies, we don’t need no fucking money prophets we need jobs that actual PAYS THE KINDA MONEY YOU’RE TAKING FROM US!!!

      All of whats done in the dark will come to the light.

      HillbillyJihad&TheBubbaLiberationFront Reply:

      #1 No!!! #2 Not all americans are deserving of food!!! #3 not everybody is able to be educated!!!#4 Agreed!!! #5 That’s a fuckin’pipe dream at best!!! #6 Once again we’re in agreement #7 Americans ARE the fuckin’ stupidest people in the Industrialized world is a bullseye!!! Again…not everyone can be educated!!! This is NOT “Flowers for Algeron!!!” “All ‘HAIL’ Thermal Expansion!!!”

      John Henke Reply:

      #1 Cool! I bid $10.00 for that M-16! And throw in a 1,000 rounds for 50 cents!

      #2 Screw the bums!

      #3 Government schools are off of the tenth plank of the Communist manifesto. Read it.

      #4 Screw universal health care. I’m not paying for some gastropods leg amputation!

      #5 Most of these fat slobs aren’t going to exercise! What, you want to fine them?

      #6 Again, what you want to fine them?

      #7 See #3.

      What a load of Fascist crap!

      ubergoober Reply:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=channel be afraid

      Davol Reply:

      Sounds like the pipe dreams of a tyrant. Americans are not the stupidest people in the world, and you just try to take my TV from me since I noticed you’re still letting us have guns.

      Ray Reply:

      What are you a Control Freak! It is either your way or the highway. The last I check America is about Freedom not about being controlled how to think. Who decides what to watch and to read. Who decides what is education.

    2. DavidMoy Says:

      You know when people say wake up what does that mean to you?
      Does it mean wake up and see how crooked the government is, a majority of people do know that.

      Wake up and share with others?
      Well all of us have this knowledge of the NWO its in mainstream news
      Now I feel that most people who say they are awake arent really.
      Your lulled into more silence because you believe you have learned some secret truth and when you share it with others they reject it.

      So today that you are wide awake how do you feel?
      Has your daily routine changed?
      Have you stopped buying products from large corporations?
      Have you written to any elected officials?

      And even if you answer yes to one or two of those do you feel it was effective?

      There is no winning unless we all shut off our computers and get together to make a solid plan on marching into Washington and meeting face to face with out officials.

      Otherwise they dont recognize that you are human. These people dont see our numbers or our faces through letters or anything else.

      We all need to get together and come up with great detail what to discuss with the elected powers instead of sitting around complaining that nothing is getting done.

      If we all got together and said forget out jobs for a week. Forget our plans for the week and get together and speak to them face to face

      If you are not recognized as a physical person they will never take it seriously

      Letter writing accomplishes nothing

      If you receive a collections notice by mail do you feel threatened by it?
      Do you say its just the bank or collections dept?
      Thats not a certain person that is not physical and you dont care

      But if you walk into a store and the owner tells you that you may not purchase anymore because of debt you will take it seriously and work hard to correct the debt.

      Why because its in person physical
      We all need to personally stand up whats to fear we will all die one day right.
      The thing is even when we die the world keeps going and our kids and grandchildren will have to deal with this with less of a fight because when the elders die history dies.
      History is not in books its in people

      Force Winds Reply:

      Agree with you 100%. Writing to them accomplishes absolutely nothing. It would take physical bodies in their faces. In their FACES!!!!!!

    3. wastelandsoldier Says:

      Im sorry but to get a nobel peace prize anymore.Do you have to be a government shill.The nobel peace prize is a fu%king joke.Saving money is bad? Go to hell krugman.

      John Henke Reply:

      I lost all respect when Al Gorlioni got his.

    4. Internal Patriot Says:

      Excuse me asshole!!! Did you mean to say, “Blame the US Government for not providing the necessary information, knowledge and tools required to provide their people a real and true remedy for this Bust”? To an average taxpayer…savings is crucial during a financial collapse. They aren’t provided the tools needed to re-ciruculate their liabilities or expenses through the US Corp. Instead…they get bills and taxes and true commodities are out of balance on their books. Taxpayers don’t get the perks that banks get to use in order to borrow the exemption of the entity depositing money into the bank. However, to the US Corp…it is imperative that you spend. Can they be any more blatant about who the originator of the credit actually is? Can the neon sign be any bigger or brighter flashing exactly WHO the issuer of money has been and forever will be? This is getting good. I can’t believe anybody would even attempt to blame the only entities out there that are legally capable of issuing currency in order to BAILOUT this friggin’ pansy ass government with serious baggage. I can’t until 2012!!!

      George Reply:

      whats in 2012 ?

      John Henke Reply:

      No, It’s like, all of the planets are going to line up and point to this really big black hole in the center of the galaxy. Then, well, shit! I don’t know.

      Just that I guess. Oh, and the Mayan calender will run out. So what?

    5. James A. Burt Says:

      Notice that Krugman has the smirk? That’s how you can tell they’ve been clued in. . .

    6. Bondservent1958 Says:

      Like most I have sat back and watched this insanity done in the name of protecting the economy and I have realized that it is not the peoples economy that is being protected but the institutions. If they think that savings is causing the problem then let’s take it up a notch and stop using Banks as much as possible. I will take my employers check to their bank and deal only in cash. No more debit card to track my every purchase, no more supermarket card to track my food spending, no more fees for Banks using my money. Banks continue to extract usuary fees in excess credit and banking fees time to take away their ability to do just that. Usuary is a sin, the wages of sin is death, let the Banks die!

      ew keane Reply:

      now if we could just get the preachers to say that…

    7. F U Says:

      More blah, blah, from a person who rather direct us to BS than to the truth. Kill the Federal Reserve Act and clear the way for us to issue our own money as written in the consitution. Forget about correcting this govt mess with more debt money from the FED it will only enslave us more and that is the whole idea.

      oldnamvet Reply:

      F U You are right on and in only 3 sentences,yet all these phd eleite scum of fed reserve and world govt dont have a clue.The enemy of america is the FED RESERVE and the enemy of the world is the WORLD BANK AND IMF.These are run by a degenerat eleiteist zionist scum name Rothchilds and his number one and two asset Rockefeller and kissenger.End these bastards and save the world money system.I as a 66 yr old remember full well when america farmers produced so much,we damn near fed the world besides ourselfs.I remember when we were not trying to run the whole world as in new world order.I remember there were good paying jobs,with unions scale befor NAFTA and etc.Although we have had communist presidents since 1913,thats right I said communist people.Do you know what a commie is america.If not ya got one in the whitehouse with his gang.

    8. Dan Says:

      People who save money are with AL QUEDA!

      this guy, ahaha, who saves? In AmeriKa? c’mon.

      Ahh this staged collapse.

      watchign these bankers is like wacthing clowns at a circus.

      For all these years they said the collapse would never come, now the mantra is that this is just a down turn, and that it will be back in 6 months ahahahaha.

      Good thing I’m expecting a brand new society, or I’d be nervous.

      13*

    9. enoch7 Says:

      Don’t say Usuary. Brown shirts might come to your house. Good post I agree.

    10. Roman Says:

      If Savers are the problem then what about the Federal Reserve

    11. sewkr8tez Says:

      Krugman seems to ignore the trade imbalance. Guess its not worth noting. In my opinion its our own damn fault for buying the cheap stuff we import from other countries. Walmart is killing us. The WTO, world market trade advantage we give to other countries is strangling us. We have no manufacturing. Our Puppet Government only tells to borrow and spend more. Consume mofos consume!!!

    12. sewkr8tez Says:

      Oh I did forget we are the largest weapons exporter in the world. But still more dollars are going overseas than are coming back due the trade imbalance.

    13. dfg Says:

      I thought that Jewish lady Suzy Orman told us to save our money? Gee, what do we do? Well, I guess I better go spend all my savings. Dern money advice people.

    14. hahaha Says:

      http://www.republicoflakotah.com/

    15. HillbillyJihad&TheBubbaLiberationFront Says:

      Thrift, save, spend, consume??? Reminds me of The Godfathers song…”Birth, school, work, death”, us filthy ass consumers it’s all our fault. BuLLLshit(3L’s count em’)!!! The ONLY consumers that make impacts on our lives are the fuckin’ maggots in office!!! WTF Over??? “All ‘HAIL’ Thermal Expansion!!!”

    16. jackpontiac Says:

      Krugman probably has the 1st dollar he ever made! FUNNY GUY!!!!

      Devils Advocate Reply:

      Of course he does. He’s Jewish for fuck’s sake! It’s probably stuffed up his ass along with his families jewelry.

    17. ok Says:

      Since we know that the fed reserve note is just debt then how can saving debt help? I think just the debt is not where Bernacke would like it to be. Who ever has the most debt owes the City of London the most and is under their control.

      John Galt Reply:

      Your savings are real dollars, dollars of/with value at law. It is when you remove or withdraw them $ from the bank they become devalued or worthless. Because you accept payment at the at the window in Federal Reserve Notes an instrument of debt. STOP ACCEPTING PAYMENT IN INSTRUMENTS OF DEBT, FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES. RUN THE BANKS.

    18. Tim(Iowa) Says:

      WE ARE NOT paying for YOUR Banking MALFUNCTIONS of GREED and exploitation! FUCKERS!
      REPEAT!
      WE ARE NOT paying for YOUR Banking MALFUNCTIONS of GREED and exploitation! FUCKERS!
      REPEAT!
      WE ARE NOT paying for YOUR Banking MALFUNCTIONS of GREED and exploitation! FUCKERS!
      NOW GET READY TO PAY THE PIPER LOSER KRUGMAN & THE DOG & PONY SHOW!
      THERE WILL BE NO WHERE TO HIDE!
      DEATH TO THE USURPERS OF LIBERTY!
      WE KNOW WHO YOUR ARE BRONZE!

      Skunk Wood Reply:

      actually, we are paying, every bailout has been funded by public wealth, taxpayer dollars
      our public serpents should be beheaded for all this debt we’ve been given back by “electing” them with fixed elctronic voting machine and constitution suspended by last administration
      vote libertarian next time, demoRATS and re-druglicans cannot get the job done
      look how they solved the drug war and illegal immigration ! bang up jobs on those, pretty soon we’ll all be rooting for the cartels

    19. gfh Says:

      Lol savers! Lets tell everyone to spend their money while elite fill their coffer’s making profit on them, then when they have no money lets allow the banks to create month from debt. This debt is translated into into money which they spend then the elite fill thei2r coffer’s even more!

      The cause of this crsis is greed, the government and banks are to blame, for this simply process of allowing to create money from debt. This is will 30 – 40 years to pay! the only people that keep this country going are the lower class’s, who are the only one’s that really work, while the other’s just exploit them to make their profits.

    20. gfhs Says:

      I think the elite jew’s are also to blame, they are greedy, and i believe they poinnered the system of converting debt to cash. Of course themselves were always taking the money, but never debt since they never work, but just exploit.

    21. gfhs Says:

      Krugman i think is jewish. When you here people with german sounding last names and look weird they are usually jewish.

    22. Unite!! Says:

      Get prepared now!

      http://www.warnthepeople.org/get-prepared.html

    23. Jack Hoff Says:

      Fuck the Jews!!!!! God dammit….why didn’t we just let Hitler have his way??? Oh crap….did I say that out loud?

      Bondservent1958 Reply:

      If it were not for “some” jews the Gospel of Christ would never have flourished in the world.

      oldnamvet Reply:

      Hey moron Isrealites are not jews,zionists are not jews.You are a stupid dumbdowned 5013c chruch bred fool.Try reading up on the 12 tribes of isreal(sons of Jacob).

      Bondservent1958 Reply:

      Says YOU!

      Paul Reply:

      Half the problem that got us all here today is religious stupidity and the necessary gullibility and ignorance that allows it to flourish. Why don’t you all take your Jesus’s, 12 tribes, Allahs etc, and shove them up your collective jacksies. Then those still able may like to try that almost forgotten exercise called THINKING instead of mindless belief in ludicrous fairytales.

      son of The Republic Reply:

      These so-called “jews” have sold out their own countrymen for power now They will betray israel to destroy it like all the hitler youth want to (skull and bones, Bush..etc..). Not all jewish people want this. Just like we have assholes in our country, so do the jewish people.

    24. JJ Says:

      Let’s get David Rockefeller and a few others to spend all their money—–boy, the economy would bounce back in a week. Seriously, until the jobs come back from China, there will be no economy. The race to the bottom is now complete.

    25. Kurt Says:

      Seems to me that all the writers (on most any topic) that write for the prestigious mags and journals all went to the same school of writing. They use an excessive amount of flowery verbage and say nothing useful. I recently read an article in Newsweek (or is it Newsweak) about Obama. It had just about as much truth and useful info in it as Krugman’s article. It’s no wonder the general public doesn’t read anymore.

    26. Judas Says:

      Yeah, Paul?

      How much did they pay you?

      How much did you make for lying to the people?

      How much money?

      Was it worth it, you fraudster?

    27. Carl Says:

      No Krugman, if you by savers mean people in general, don’t blame the savers. Very few people are able to set much money aside, except for the plutocrats with their tax-exempt foundations. Blame the pyramid scheme of 1.5 quadrillion dollars in securitzed debt, which is also their creation. You know the derivatives bubble that you are not talking about. The TARP has given Wall Street 9.7 trillion dollars. This is 80% of the 12 trillion dollars mortgages in the US. If bad house loans and low consumption was the cause, wouldn’t these hyenas have solved the crisis by now?

    28. g Says:

      You can’t blame all Jews any more than you can blame all Americans for Bush.

      That said, there seems to be a strain of really low types of Jews taking over American who are as BAD as the NAZIS and the likes of Bush and Cheney etc.

    29. F 16 Says:

      Liar, Paul Krugmann.

      You put your pocket before your people.

      You liar, Paul Krugmann.

      The chips were down and you a proved a liar.

    30. MAD Says:

      Paul Krugmann, go to your grave, knowing you are, after all, corrupt and evil to your core
      the test comes and you failed it
      you know you are lying and you lied all the same for the evil NWP
      go to your grave, knowing you are a traitor to truth

    31. asdad Says:

      The real cause, is the wealth sucked up all the cash and lower class’s end up with nothing, so in order for them to make more money they convinced the governmet to allow the create of money via debt, as it went on for years and years the debt started to increase. The bank’s just kept on filling their coffer’s with money created from debt. We all know the only reason why money still has value is because people are paying the debt. If they couldn’t money would lose all it’s value. Lowers class’s are just being exploited.

    32. asdad Says:

      Now since the future looks uncertain, they just can’t lend out, since they don’t know if it can be paided back.

    33. asdad Says:

      Simply it’s always been the idea money out of thin air has been the cause. The idea of creating money from future labour, instead of current labour.

    34. fuckyoucomeandgetme Says:

      Saving is one thing, hoarding is another. That’s what most foreigners do when they come to America- they Hoard. They see that they can get a really, really big bang for their dollar and they fall into the trap of Hoarding. You know who they are, you see them everyday. They don’t tip, they live 30 beings to a house, they buy a sack of rice from sav-a-lot (a very cheap chain supermarket in Pa) and eat that for the week, they are fat from eating devitalized food, and then thet eventually die from some unknown disease.
      Stop hoarding money and give it to legitimate people and businesses. Not Shoprite and Sav-a-lot

      Gimme A Cigarette Reply:

      true very true

    35. Call me Da' Prez Says:

      Oh, nevamind. I thought dis he’a was a story about da’ Krunk, man! My bad!

    36. Unite!! Says:

      There are real people talking real solutions RIGHT NOW!

      http://www.warnthepeople.org/the-open-forum.html

    37. ! (John) Says:

      Are cookies good?

    38. mingjin xu Says:

      On Krugman: Blame the Savers for the Bust:

      Paul (a 16-year old boy) ran home crying to his mom–Mom, help me, Abe (a 4-year old boy) kicked me! His mom asked–where did he kicked you? My ass, Mom, he kicked my ass! This is what Paul Krugman told his readers. Those who believed him will be bigger fools!

      Nobel Prize winners in economics are genious in dreaming, but fools in real life situations.

    39. LV Gal Says:

      And they gave this bozo a Nobel Prize, yikes! He’s just jealous ‘cuz he didn’t save any money and ‘cuz he knows he blew it by not seeing this disaster coming. Now he’s trying to blame those of us who live and spend responsibly. Must I spend every cent I have and then some, puhleeeze. Yeah, sure, I’m gonna run right out and get into abysmal debt to save the economy, that’s what got us into this freakin’ mess. Where does he get this stuff. The global elite must love it when they hear him spout off.

    40. Neocon Narc Says:

      If they would hand a prize to Al Gore for being a failure and distorting the dangers of global warming.
      Does’nt surprise me they would give one to someone promoting the Bank ideaology of debt slavery.

      The biggest problem we have is that we forgot what the people in the last Depression learned.
      Save, and do NOT borrow money from people you cannot trust.
      If we would practice what our grandfathers learned. We would not have this problem right now.

      Do you see any Billionaires spending all their money and borrowing from banks???
      Do you see the banks lending right now??

      We don’t have to revolt or fire a shot..All you have to do is take your money out of the bank and stop borrowing.

      Gimme A Cigarette Reply:

      Amen

    41. crazycanuck Says:

      As Gomer Pyle would say – INFLATIONOMICS!
      Where is Moby Dick when you need him?

    42. One Gun Says:

      Not sure if it’s been commented already, but Don Luskin (Economic Advisor for Ron Paul’s 2008 and CIO of Trend Macrolytics) has a blog at poorandstupid.com that thrashes Paul Krugman on a regular basis.

      Mr. Krugman drives this free-market investment officer up the wall to the point where he created the “Krugman Truth Squad”. He dedicates quite a bit of energy to discredit that particular mentally handicapped Keynesian. (I know. It’s an oxymoron…)

      The blog even quotes Krugman saying of Luskin, “That’s a guy who actually stalks me on the Web and once stalked me personally.”

      Good place to check out if you share Don’s sentiments.

    43. NORTON Says:

      today i cancel all direct deposits, debits from my accounts

    44. enoch7 Says:

      DON”T SAVE! DON”T SPEND! GIVE IT TO WALL STREET they can be trusted.

    45. nader paul kucinich gravel Says:

      Remember, Bush said to “shop” after the 911 lies ~

    46. coqui44 Says:

      “…Ben Bernanke, who everyone knows has inherited this mess and now is valiantly fighting against the Forces of Reaction and Capitalism and Sound Money.”

      NOW…THAT’S IGNORANCE AND DELUSION.

      BERNANKE IS ONE OF THE DESIGNERS OF THIS ‘DESIGNED CRISIS’. HE’S NO HERO. HE’S ONE OF THE MAIN VILLAINS.

      GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT, JONES.

      Carl Reply:

      This is not an infowars article. Ignorance is bliss.

    47. Dr. Mike Says:

      #2, What is your address? I am going to come and take all of your idealistic, peaceloveandharmony shit. your a punk.

      PeterZ Reply:

      ^^^^ Here we go, more government agent and/or absolute moron provocateur bullshit that Alex will get blamed for. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?

      TIme to disable comments Alex, unless you want to continue batting away this type of crap.

    48. Unity!! Says:

      Let’s Get Busy!!

      http://WWW.WARNTHEPEOPLE.ORG

    49. PeterZ Says:

      God I hate economics. What other subject can someone explain, sound perfectly normal, but from history to present to future, be completely wrong?

      I mean, how can someone sit down and intellectually write a book ( or even just an article) that is completely and totally based in fiction, and present it as what happened, what’s happening now, and what will happen, all the while being COMPLETELY wrong?

      Its insane.

    50. jerry Says:

      After this article depicting bernanke and others, is there really anything left to say about these people running the FED? This pretty much says it all. Is it any wonder now that this country’s financial situation………….is what it is?

    51. Davol Says:

      We need to bailout the Wall Street crowd and the banks with our tax dollars. It’s a matter of life and death. You people don’t realize that when these rich people go broke they are very likely to not survive. They are not used to suddenly being pennyless and they are likely to kill themselves so we must bail them out for their own good. We down here don’t need that money. We’ve zero’d out the bank account before. We’re used to it and it will probably happen again, but at least we won’t get all suicidal about it. Save the poor rich people!

    52. KrugmanIsAnIdiot Says:

      Krugman is just parroting the Orwellian doublespeak. Up is down and down is up.

      We have entered the realm of the surreal. The virtues of unabated spending now trump those of thrift and economy.

      “Go into even greater debt, world. It is the poison of servitude and it is so good for you… ”

      Krugman and his ilk spew lies from the pits of hell. That horrendous abode will someday be his eternal home.

    53. Gimme A Cigarette Says:

      I agree, he is a charlatan, I dont buy his shit but- i like reading the comments what others have to say i