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Kuhl Conducts Road User Charge Tax Study in North Carolina
- Text size
Bruce Siceloff
The News-Observer
October 14, 2008
Two hundred Triangle drivers will be recruited this fall to road-test a satellite-technology system that might be used one day to collect highway taxes on every mile we drive — replacing the gas tax on every gallon we buy.
Computers mounted in volunteers’ cars will use global positioning system tracking to count the miles — even across state lines.
Participants will receive make-believe state and federal tax bills for their miles. For their time and their opinions, they’ll be paid $895 in real money.
The $16.5 million Road User Charge Study will enlist drivers in six states to determine whether the technology works, and whether Americans would accept a new mileage tax. Volunteers will be asked how they feel about technology that collects information about their driving.
The federal government and 15 states, including North Carolina, are paying for the study to find a fair, reliable revenue source that can keep pace with growing transportation needs.
“The gas tax is not going to be a viable way of funding our highways in the future,” Jon Kuhl, a University of Iowa professor who is directing the study, said in an interview. “The national Highway Trust Fund is already going broke, and the situation is going to get worse.”
Gas tax collections are slowing as cars get more miles on each gallon, and as $4 pump prices force Americans to reduce their driving. A few years from now, many Americans might be driving plug-in electric and fuel-cell cars that don’t use gas at all.
- A d v e r t i s e m e n t
Michael Walden, an economist at N.C. State University, said the study will help Americans answer hard questions about how to pay for the nation’s transportation infrastructure. He agreed with Kuhl that the nation needs to find a replacement for the gas tax.
“Perhaps a better way in terms of assessing someone’s use of the roads is not how many gallons they use but how many miles they actually drive,” said Walden, who is not involved in the study. “A mileage tax could be adjusted over time, as the cost of road construction goes up.”
With the $895 bounty and an advertising campaign that will start next week, Kuhl and his team hope to enlist a diverse mix of car owners from the six-county Triangle area. Details are available by phone at 866-363-1975 (toll-free) or online at www.roaduserstudy.org.
After the participants are chosen and trained, their cars will be outfitted with GPS computers — the satellite technology that drives popular dashboard navigation gadgets. Over eight months, starting in December, the car’s computer will record the number of miles driven in each state, then upload the information to a central billing system.
Make-believe taxes
Cars will have make-believe per-mile tax rates based on their EPA-estimated fuel economy.
The tax rates are intended to generate about the same taxes on miles that the car pays in taxes on gallons of gas. The mileage tax would be higher for a heavy truck that burns a lot of gas, and lower for a fuel-thrifty hybrid.
A typical car rated at 24 miles per gallon will have a make-believe federal tax rate of 0.8 cents per mile, plus 1.3 cents per mile for the North Carolina tax, Kuhl said. For 24 miles, that’s 31.2 cents state and 19.2 cents federal tax — about a penny more than the current taxes on a gallon.
If the technology works, it could give federal, state and even local governments the option to set different tax rates for different vehicles.
Volunteers also will test of public attitudes about a new type of tax — and about technology that gathers information about where people drive.
“Privacy is a hot-button issue,” Kuhl said. “People rightly have a knee-jerk reaction about being tracked.”
The system will only count the number of miles driven each month in a given state, he said.
“There’s no way these units could be used to track people or determine they were in a particular place at a particular time,” Kuhl said.
Some drivers will worry about government snooping, Walden said, and that could make it even harder to sell the idea of a new tax.
“I don’t know if the mileage tax is going to be any better accepted than the gas tax, but I know we have a problem finding money for our roads,” Walden said.
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October 14th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
This guy Kuhl’s responses to Alex’s questions were laughable. They keep telling us we don’t have money to build and repair roads, which is a crock of s---, but they sure have money to install poles and cameras to steal money from us everywhere
October 14th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Oh man you have to love this. People are cash strapped to put gas in the tank and carry insurance and these f---ers want to toll and tax everything. A couple of days ago a guy pulled out all the money he had in his pocket (I think $15 bucks) and said give me this on Pump 2. Meanwhile, I go in there after filling up my 2/3’s empty tank for over $70. AND THEY WANT TO TAX AND TOLL MORE!! GIVE ME A BREAK.
October 14th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
no more free america at all. what a joke we have become.
October 14th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
If they don’t have money for roads how do they pay for the wars in Afganistan and Iraq?
October 14th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
digital toilet calculates mass for tax by weight per flush … new chip will count your breaths for the new air quality tax
October 14th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Look, technology such as GPS should result in the IMPROVEMENT of the average citizen’s life. All technology should. It’s sad that we have to oppose technological advances simply because the government cannot be trusted to use them fairly. (I totally agree that government, especially at the federal level, cannot be trusted with this kind of information).
In an anarcho-capitalist society, something like this might be a great method of paying for the use of privately owned roads (after the road system has been handed over to county/municipal level government, and, at a future time, auctioned off to local for-profit or non-profit organizations). In an anarcho-capitalist society, we wouldn’t have a federal reserve, an imperialist military machine, or a CIA. Technology would be solely the product of a free market, and innovations would be channeled towards pleasing consumers and not government control-freaks. Private institutions would have not the resources nor motives to construct WMDs, they would instead be focused on providing technological goods for consumers.
I just wanted to point this out to illustrate the real reason things like this should be opposed. Technology – in a free society – is a blessing. Our major enemy here is the state – not simply the corporations that have slowly taken over the state and form it’s accomplices in crime. ABOLISH THE STATE.
THE STATE IS AN ILLEGITIMATE SOCIAL ORGANIZATION.
October 14th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
I think it’s called “ON STAR”
October 14th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
I agree to post number 1. We have the bailout bill of what is it 700 billion dollars to “help” the mortgage companies, and banks. Yet our road is going to pot and people have curved their driving habits despite the price on gas (high or low). WE need to start complaining to our congressional reps this is a election year.
October 14th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
They just keep taking it all one inch at a time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPS7ksrKk8Y
October 14th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
CAN SOMEONE CLOSE TO ALEX RIGHT NOW PLEASE TELL HIM TO QUIT INTERRUPTING MICHAEL TSARION…HE IS MAKING GOOD POINTS AND ALEX KEEPS JUMPING IN AND NOT LETTING HIM FINISH HIS COMMENTS….C’MON!!!
October 14th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
We are going to need a bail out bill for this too………
America the great, no worries here…if you get stuck for the bill, we bail you out.
Oh never mind, that’s for the bankers, not the people, silly citizen.
October 14th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Alex tends to break in all the time, at times it just gets nuts and folks cannot finish their point, but that is alex. I hope someone calls.
Now on this issue, they will just keep taking and taking, and many will just allow it because they are fraid.
Plus this is all part of the plan to institute martial Law, because the more you tax the eoople they will rebel, and they will cause problems, and here comes martial law.
Martial Law coming to a town near you.
Get ready because they hve been for years.
October 14th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
I believe they are lying about the “not gonna spy on you part” and OhNO is right, one inch at a time.
October 14th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
for 12 Quitt Being Rude, well you have a phone, give a call.. enjoy
October 14th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Physical revolution…otherwise we’re just wasting our time beating off about this. It’s complete tyranny.
October 14th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
‘Tis the season and treason is the reason! Let the revolution begin! See you in the trenches. The only thing we have to fear is our own inaction. We must find away to overcome the inertia, ’cause once this ball gets rolling it’s gonna hit warp speed.
October 14th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
They want to know were you are at any time CONTOL AND THEY WANT US TO PAY FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!
Welkom to the NWO prison.
October 14th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Its never enough with these people!
October 14th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
I thought we were broke!
October 14th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Actually roads are about 96% self-funded through tolls, gas taxes and user fees; not from income or other taxes. This only goes to show that people will pay what it costs and it shouldn’t be a government function. As long as they really did trade this for gas taxes it wouldn’t be that bad: you pay for the amount of roads you use, just like any other service.
October 14th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
seems to me like a way to keep tabs on the yellow list people
October 14th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
and btw, I live here in the Triangle and in case you’re wondering people are broke around here too.
October 14th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Basically a tracking device for your car ..It seems.. if they know when to tax you.. they know where you are.. and of course it will be “for the better good”..
October 14th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
contact congress and sponcer a bill that would make it illigal to use GPS for taxation
also know this will only a way to toll every single road you drive on including if you onw 100 squaremile ranch you will be paying a toll on your own properity
and its like a toll in your own driveway
in a slave pay system BIG GOVERMENT looking to hold you upsidedown and shake every cent out of you
and Copreate welfare will also be funded by this tax as you drive
i recomend we start immeadly find a way if this becomes that all have to have these in car tolebooths
also this punishes people who run electric cars H2 cars and and solar cars and hibreds
and efficent cars
and makes driving only more expensive and
also allows big NWO brother to watch you and milk you and fine you for little mistakes
and the industry here in texas
is KVUE has stated that TEXAS if paying people to join a trial project
and people are buying into it
besides ITs illigal to use a tracking device on somones car or properity in the state of texas
that includes PEER to PEER location transponders
October 14th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Radical we payed for the road, then pay to use it. How did the government maintain the roads for the past 100 year? State and federal government has more revenue than anytime in history, but they can’t maintain what our former generations could with less money. The problem is the administration cost, high salaries at the State and Federal levels.
The Republic is over it is time to take our government back, or let it collapse.
October 14th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Radical we payed for the roads, then pay to use it. How did the government maintain the roads for the past 100 yeasr? State and federal governments have more revenue than anytime in history, but they can’t maintain what former generations could with less money. The problem is the administration cost, high salaries at the top, State and Federal levels.
The Republic is over it is time to take our government back, or let it collapse.
October 14th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
And what about the 200-350 miles I drive per year, off-road in a Jeep? It is an interesting idea. I wonder how much will be spent on this test, rather than fixing the roads.
October 14th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
This is just one more giant waste of money by the supremely irresponsible human race. America has been a scam since the very beginning and it cannot be salvaged. It’s time to watch it all burn down. I am so ashamed that I do not even refer to myself as an American anymore. This country was founded on lies, deceit and evil. This country is evil and should be allowed to die. And I will have a big smile on my face one day as I watch it burn and the Columbian faction is finally toppled, destroyed and sentenced to reside in hell with the Devil if there be such a thing. Death to the Illuminati.
October 14th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
#31 – well said…and it’s funny you should mention “burn it all” because as we speak the santa anna winds are fueling the california fires. i would bet money on it that those fires were lit by someone.
October 14th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
It’s a tax, so it would not be voluntary. So, everyone would have to have one. No opting out. What wouldbe the jail sentence if you disabled yours?
October 14th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
hacktime
October 14th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Hey I had a great idea you know how people are always wanting to hit the oil companies hard. Well in my way of thinking the best time to hit them is at the same time they are taking it on wall street, right now. Right now people, if we could get everyone to take a three day break and no t buy any gas that would send them a message that we will not take their s--- anymore and yes we are smart and we do know when to pull together. That way those pieces of s--- don’t sit around thinking of ways to jack the price up artificially ….!!!!!!!!! Huh, you know they’re thinking “Hey we know those pinhead f---ers will pay 4 bucks a gallon, so we gotta give them a small short break, let them thank us, and then jack it back up to 3.99.9 again. If we could get our s--- together and send them a three day message right now as they are getting their little bubble bursted, then maybe they wouldn’t jack it back up. Hell in fact they may possible realize we have the power to effect their buisness.
Well if any one out there is like one of those guys who organize s---, organize that, I promise I’ll participate, even if I have to hitchhike to the emergency room or ride my tractor I won’t buy gas, and if we could do it a few times a month and they could see it on their daily/weekly/monthy sales sheets they might just change their tunes. Think about it people, we always want to do the gas boycott thing when they are at their peak in revenues. No we need to do it when they are taking a hit, now, and then again, and again, and everytime the stockmarket takes a hit, we need to hit them, hit hit hit hit hit hit, f--- their record profits, we need to set a record alright, a record low, and then another, and then another and then another. Until they realize we are not to be f---ed with.
October 14th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
No problem. It is easy to jam or scramble the GPS signal rendering the receiver useless. This scam by our government can be easily be circumvented. There will be millions to be made by clever garage type businesses to black market these devices. Start educating yourselves with the GPS technology now so that you will be a step ahead of the Feds when this plan is implemented. Who ever said that the government should be the only one to make money. This is America!
October 14th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Post number 1 hit the ball out of the park. I did not like his arrogant attitude. Please call him and let him know to be more courteous to Alex next time.
Jon G. Kuhl
jon-kuhl@uiowa.edu
Professor
Electrical and Computer Engineering
4016A Seamans Center for the Engineering Arts and Sciences
The University of Iowa
Iowa City, IA 52242
Telephone: (319) 335-5958
October 14th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
contact this nut and let him know we are not happy with him.
Jon G. Kuhl
jon-kuhl@uiowa.edu
Professor
Electrical and Computer Engineering
4016A Seamans Center for the Engineering Arts and Sciences
The University of Iowa
Iowa City, IA 52242
Telephone: (319) 335-5958
October 14th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
“There’s no way these units could be used to track people or determine they were in a particular place at a particular time,” Kuhl said.
That is absolute rubbish. You have to track the automobile to track the milage, and you have to track the owner of the automobile to send him a bill for the milage taxes to Joe Smith’s home address. It’s very easy to use the existing positioning technology to track where Joe Smith was at “a particular place at a particular time.”
October 14th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
is there a fairer way to pay for the roads than to have those who drive, pay an equal amount per person to have them to drive on?
October 14th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Anybody remember the old Yugo commercial where the car is turned upside down and shaken until a few coins fall out? We’re the Yugos.
October 14th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
and to add my my comment
i would also say we can pay for our raods and kill many taxes if we GOT of other countrys buisness TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS GOING TO IRAQ but only a fraction of a% of that is going tward owr roads bridges and infastructure
Get RID OF WAR and FIX america Dont vote obama or mccain
Vote for whom RON PAUL WOULD
October 15th, 2008 at 12:05 am
As long as there are politicians who continue to create this s--- the world will continue to get darker and we will all continue to pay the price. Governments and politicians are mankind’s most dangerous enemy.Politicians and other parasites who live off money confiscated from the working people will argue that the government cannot survive without these kind of fraud programs and even the individual income tax and they are absolutely right. So why in hell would we want this government to survive when it is nothing but inefficient, wasteful, unstable,corrupt and destroying this country. When will we wake up to the reality that we don’t need politicians to survive. Get rid of the politicians and the changes will be astronomical. Hell this country did just fine 150 years ago without these self serving corrupt parasites. Read your history and look where we are at today. How much more validation do we need?
October 15th, 2008 at 12:36 am
North Carolina’s roads are well kept and well funded as it is now-this is an obvious federal government prying operation and people here will not tolerate this underhanded tactic-you’ll see.
October 15th, 2008 at 7:36 am
this story suggests that the implementation of this highway tax will depend on if the american people find this technology in their autos acceptacle. please, congress does what big business tells them to do. we have no say in this.
October 15th, 2008 at 7:46 am
They don’t ‘intend’ to track & trace you, but you can bet your bottom dollar that when some cop shows how useful it would be in fighting crime they will introduce it.
Look at DNA sampling, it started off as just done with people charged with criminal offences, but now everyone the cops arrest, even innocents, gets put on the DNA register.
The state always develops ‘mission creep’ with new technology. Look how microwave emitters, meant for military use only, are now being lined up for domestic ‘crowd control’. Look how Tasers, introduced for when a gun would otherwise be used, are now used as torture compliance devices that would never have needed a gun drawn.
Your American Founding Fathers were geniuses -the people should NEVER trust a government and HAVE A DUTY to take it down by force when it goes rotten.
October 15th, 2008 at 7:48 am
Here’s a simple quiz to explain these troubling circumstances we read about on this website:
Q – What is worse than an organization that is in business solely to murder babies?
A – A nation that makes the organization filthy rich by having their babies butchered
Q – What is worse than a “Christian” preacher with no Bible understanding but a degree in marketing?
A – A nation that will make that false preacher rich and make his church the largest in the nation
Q – What is worse than millions of fecalists who parade their sexual perversion and even publicly display their fecal to mouth perversions?
A – A nation that grants special privileges to the perverts and corrupts marriage by saying fecalism qualifies for marriage
Q – What is worse than political leaders who have interns provide oral sex, lead nations into false wars to murder millions of innocent people, lie repeatedly yet say they are “Christian”, use taxpayer funds to run fecalist sex rings, repeatedly commit adultery, etc.
A – A nation that campaigns for those corrupted leaders and continues to vote them into office
Q – What is worse than musicians who sing of rape, murder, Satanism, human sacrifice, and every other type of deviancy?
A – A nation that makes those wicked musical preachers filthy rich by soaking the trash into their mushy brains
Garsh!!! I wonder why we have so many troubles hitting us!! “Get me another beer, Martha, and turn up the 4-bit thugs, I need to forget about my troubles for awhile. I can’t wait til we get that Muslim guy in office who promises us chains, then ever thang’ll be lot’s better!”
Dream on, stupid, immoral Americans! We are rapidly approaching our demise.
October 15th, 2008 at 8:33 am
Simply unConstitutional. The Constitution gives no authority to the Federal Government to tax, control, or regulate transportation, nor transportation infrastructures.
October 15th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Amazing, they say it will no way shape or form track you, but it will use GPS to count miles driven, even across state line. Has anyone ever heard of a global positioning system that did not know were you are at ? Of coarse not. Gotta love how they use DOUBLETHINK to try and sale intraptment. Not only they know were you are, but you’r gonna get taxed for it. Sounds like an idea north carolina would help promote. Trust me north carolina loves there taxes.
October 15th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
someone save this page and keep track of the progression of this as it becomes mandatory
tax evry raod including dirt raods and privet ranch roads
October 15th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
The bill for this is in congress right now.
October 15th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Everyone needs to email them and tell them how you feel about GPS units in our cars to determine miles driven for taxes. Tell them NO!!! Tell them they are full of it if they think they can tell us it doesnt track you and that they wont know when/where you are at a specific time. Tell them you know how mission creep always sets in. Tell them to stop spending money on studies and stop raiding the transportation fund which is why its broke by the way. Same with SS. Tell them if need be to increase gas tax a few cents and get off our backs. Im not for higher taxes but realize they are going to take it and Id rather they didnt track me while doing it. Id rather pay a few cents more for gas then have whats left of my freedoms taken away and monitored like a lab rat. PLEASE email this group and get everyone else to do it. We need to have a backlash against this and try to stop it befor it gets to far along. They are paying people and you know theres many people in need of money and wil say whatever they need to get the money. Their email is: roaduserstudy@uiowa.edu …. Try to get media on this. If anyone knows a group thats against this crap tell them and hopefully we can get the ball rolling in our favor.
October 15th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
wow what a brainstrom tax the slaves for the miles they drive to go places and track us too boot,i got a better idea let put meters on all toilet bowls and tax everyone for the amount they put in the bowl,(KUHL)would be able to pay for all the road tax himself because he is full of it if he thinks the american public is going to buy the crap he is selling, since we all payed for the building of these roads and their upkeep already with tax money maybe the fat beurocrats in government should take pay cuts instead but it seems that assholes rule the roost and are so full of s--- that the tiolet tax would be a better deal how about that idea folks, we the working morons would make trillions off these giant a-holes that come up with this crap. just am idea sorry about the choice of words but it fits the idea this hair brain idiot is wanting talk about stupid he has it all and anyone who pushes this idea is full of it too. boy these people are out of mad magazine and need medication quick because the lunatics have taken over the government.
October 16th, 2008 at 5:25 am
Are you paying income taxes ? paying for permits and license, etc,etc ? YOU are a sheepole and voluntary slave. So SHUT UP and GRAB YOUR ANKLES
October 16th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
The solution is to demand that your elected officials stop all funding for Kuhl and similar bureaucrats who are proposing anti-privacy initiatives.
I am going to fight this, and other infringements on our rights, if I get elected to the NC Senate. Even if I am not elected, I will continue to fight it, as a citizen – the highest office in the land! I oppose all government use of electronic systems to track individuals. I wrote to Kuhl several months ago and let my anger show through loud and clear. I was quite nasty and without apology. When someone says they plan to take away my rights, I get downright combative. You should too!
When confronted by anyone who plans to help the government take away your rights, do not just say “Please, mastah, don’t do it.” Get angry, demand your rights, and let them know what they can do with their electronic surveillance devices.
The intrusions by government on our everyday lives are exponentially increasing. They are using our own money to do it. Every right we fail to defend ends up giving more power to government which is becoming more totalitarian every day. Consider the recent Wall Street Bailout dictate as a prime example. We resoundingly told them “Hell NO!!” The President and US Congress stole our money and gave it to the rich folks despite our objections. It is high time the citizens fight back and take back the power which the government takes upon themselves.
Throw out the status quo incumbents! Don’t wait until all our rights are stripped away by martial law, and we are all tagged with RFID chips. Don’t wait for a bloody revolution of citizens against the omnipotent government and troops from our own families and communities. Act now! We can take back our government, and demand the return to a constitutional republic, with rights, liberty, and freedom guaranteed to all, by using our most powerful and most PEACEFUL weapon… THE VOTE!!
There are numerous people in government who have failed their oath to defend the US Constitution and your rights. They have failed to vehemently defend your rights, and your property, while they were stripped away from you by their colleagues. There are numerous corruptions which many in government have turned a blind eye to. Washington DC and the 50 statehouses have all become a den of thieves. Enough is enough! Throw out the incumbents, corrupt politicians, PAC’s, and lobbyists, and do it in a way that gives peace a chance. Send a message to the US Capitol and all state Capitols. VOTE!!
After the elections, if the newly appointed officials continue to falter by failing to defend our rights, liberty, and freedoms, we must be prepared to take the next steps toward a lawful and peaceful reconstitution through a series of lawful and peaceful assemblies to petition for grievances and demands, beginning with laws which protect individual privacy rights.
Jan MacKay
NC Senate, District 15, http://www.grassroot.us/mackayforsenate
October 16th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Correction: NC Senate, District 15 should read NC Senate Candidate, District 15
October 19th, 2008 at 4:55 am
I wonder how much of the taxpayer’s money is spent by the gov’t on stupid s---. I’d wager it’s a fair sum.
November 2nd, 2008 at 1:58 am
What does that say about the volenteers who opt to advance this proposal?