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Native American Faith Healers Sent to Prison
- Text size
Fightin’ Words
October 8, 2009
Earlier this year, here in the state of Minnesota, a judge determined that Colleen and Anthony Hauser were guilty of child neglect and endangerment because they opted not to proceed with chemotherapy as a treatment for their son Daniel, who had Hodgkin’s lymphoma. The family is part of a Native American religious sect called Nemenhah, a faith which guided their medical decisions. The state mandated that Daniel receive the chemotherapy, and the parents eventually yielded to the government’s authority after a relatively short period of protest. This week, a similar story has a new development in the neighboring state of Wisconsin.
Dale and Leilani Neumann could have received up to 25 years in prison for the March 2008 death of Madeline Neumann, who died of an undiagnosed but treatable form of diabetes. They were convicted of second-degree reckless homicide in separate trials earlier this year.
In sentencing the couple, Marathon County Circuit Court Judge Vincent Howard said the Neumanns were “very good people, raising their family who made a bad decision, a reckless decision.”
<snip>
The case was believed to be the first of its kind in Wisconsin involving faith healing in which someone died and another person was charged with a homicide.
Prosecutors contended the Neumanns recklessly killed their youngest of four children by ignoring obvious symptoms of severe illness as she became too weak to speak, eat, drink or walk. They said the couple had a legal duty to take their daughter to a doctor but relied totally on prayer for healing. The girl, known as Kara, died on the floor of the family’s rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone finally called 911 after she stopped breathing.
This story stands as another example of the state interfering in a private medical and religious matter. They do so utilizing a bastardization of the term “neglect” as justification.
Wisconsin law defines neglect broadly as “failure to provide necessaries of life.” Consider the more detailed definition which medical professionals are taught to look for by the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health:
Child neglect (also called psychological abuse) is a form of child abuse that occurs when someone intentionally does not provide a child with food, water, shelter, clothing, medical care, or other necessities (emphasis added).
Other forms of child neglect include:
- Allowing the child to witness violence or severe abuse between parents or adults
- Ignoring, insulting, or threatening the child with violence
- Not providing the child with a safe environment and adult emotional support
- Showing reckless disregard for the child’s well bein
- A d v e r t i s e m e n t
At face value, this may seem to be a common sense definition. However, the subjective nature of “medical care, or other necessities,” and other terms, provide a wedge for interfering in family matters which are none of anyone’s business. What constitutes “ignoring?” What constitutes an “insult?” Who determines what is or is not a “safe environment?” What is “adult emotional support” and how is its absence determined? Is a threat to use corporal discipline “threatening [a] child with violence?” Who is to say what constitutes medical care? Is a vaccine medical care? Is an herb? If a prayer is not, why not? Who gets to make that choice?
“They allowed Kara to die because they got themselves too caught up in the misguided belief that they were being tested by God,” the prosecutor said.
Excuse me? The “misguided” belief? Who is the arbiter of what constitutes a misguided religious belief? This prosecutor? This judge? The state of Wisconsin? The federal government? Perhaps the United Nations in the not too distant future? Is not the final arbiter of religious belief and consent to medical treatment the individual? Are not children still considered legally incompetent, and therefore rightfully obligated to the custodianship of their parents? Not anymore, folks. We see more and further examples of state interference in patently parental decisions at a rate which seems only to increase.
But these people are crazy, some may argue. They’re daughter is dead and it’s their fault and they should pay. You think they’re not? Is it not punishment enough to have lost one’s child?
I agree their judgment was severely lacking. Theirs was not the choice I would have made. But it was not my choice to make! Nor was it yours. Nor was it the government’s. It was theirs and theirs alone, and they will live with the consequences for the rest of their lives. To label them neglectful is to deny their right to determine for them and theirs what constitutes proper medical treatment. Medicine is not food, clothing, or shelter. Medicine is not a “necessity.” It is a contingency, a response to an abnormal circumstance. The need for food is constant, never abating, and universally fulfilled in a specific manner. Likewise the need for clothing and shelter are perpetual, and their fulfillments uncontroversial. Medicine is different. The approach to medicine varies greatly from person to person in different cultures with different ideas about health, including spiritual health. These ideas may seem ridiculous to you or me. They may in fact be ridiculous, even within the professed theology of the individual. But the demands of liberty dictate the individual’s ability to make a ridiculous choice. We are slowly but surely creeping away from that as a country, and the end of such incrementalism will not be healthy.
The judge ordered the couple to serve one month in jail each year for six years so the parents can “think about Kara and what God wants you to learn from this.” One parent would serve the term in March and the other in September. Howard stayed the jail sentences while the couple’s convictions are appealed.
As part of their probation, the parents must allow a public health nurse to examine their two underage children at least once every three months and must immediately take their children to a doctor for any serious injuries.
The objective of such state intervention is state intervention. It is control. It is taking over parental responsibility from parents. It is justified, like virtually all intrusions upon liberty, with fringe examples that conjure support for the state’s efforts. An unscientific poll conducted by AOL asks respondents if the judge’s sentence in this case was appropriate. At the time of this writing, 59% had voted that it was “too lenient!” 29% replied that it was “about right.” Only 12% agreed with my assessment of the sentence as “too harsh.” I understand the results. People are likely feeling, not thinking. They are likely applying their own judgment, rather than looking at whose judgment should matter. They may also look at the sentence and think, That’s not so bad. One month a year? Split up so they’re not both away at the same time? That makes sense. They’re getting off light. But it sets a nasty precedent.
This is not a “slippery slope” argument. This is a “line in the sand” argument. Government must not be allowed to stick its nose in the tent of parental affairs except in cases of extraordinary and demonstrable physical abuse and real neglect (starving or exposure). Erring needs to be on the side of parental and religious rights, because we either have them or we don’t. This case, believed to be the first of its kind in the history of the state, sets the precedent that government decides what medical treatment is appropriate rather than parents. It is a very small step from there to forced vaccination, mandatory doctor visits, forced drugging, etc. What’s stopping it if not a strict libertarian position on parental rights? If you are going to make the argument that the state has a vested interest in making medical decisions for individuals and their children, what principle bars that interest from expanding to every aspect of health care?
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October 8th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Medicine is not a necessity? It was in her case…
Krypke Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
You are witnessing the attack on the family: CPS, forced drugging, family courts, vaccines in the schools. The president giving speeches to the kids!?
They do not want us to handle family affairs on our own. Instead, the state wants complete control. They would rather have your kids in a Gov controlled day care than down the street at the neighbors house like the good old days when kids use to play outside.
We need to stop accepting things the way they are and do something about it.
http://thegreendragon.ning.com/
If your not bothered at all by this article you are not paying attention.
Jamie Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
The first thing i think of when i wake up….Fuck you New World Order!…get out of my life…stay the fuck away!
arwijn Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Faith healing can be quite effective, even against cancers.
Watch the movie: The Living Matrix.
A powerful movie about the power of consciousness, will and energy.
It gives a lot of scientific backup as to how thee things work and how fundamentally flawed regular medicine is.
brainy smurf Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
After careful thought,I see no need for any vaccine or prescription drug.From a religious perspective,the scriptures translate scorcery as pharma.BTW, we’re not living longer because of any medical reasons,we’re living longer based on wisdom from Godly teachings on health.
Lorrain Reply:
October 11th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
Jamie, New World Order does not come to you…sorry, but its the other way around. Don’t tune in, it’s that simple!
FreedomLover Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Ok, another try. All my posts regarding this beacon of hope were taken down (or maybe I didn’t wait long enough?).
Hope for our times. Get your hands on issues of the W.H.I.S.T.L.E.B.L.O.W.E.R. It details what the s.t.a.t.e.s are doing to exclude the govt from the affairs of private citizens.
InvestigatEverything Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Would you please get lost with this same post over and over again. Once is enough… really. Maybe all your posts were taken down because you ARE SPAMMING THE MESSAGE BOARDS!! How about some discussion on the topic. Then you could even include a link in your name. This way, if someone wants to check it out they can, rather then you bombarding the board with your spam on every damn story!!!!
FreedomLover Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
With all due respect, SIR, I posted this three times and ONLY three times. I first posted with more info on the source, but it was taken down. The articles here change so fast that it’s possible many people don’t see the posts. Now, SIR, this is NOT spam. It is a legitimate magazine that a friend gave me to read. I am on the 2nd of three issues. It not only confirms the truth on this website, but adds to it. This magazine prints articles relevant to the current state of affairs. I don’t have a website to link my name, otherwise I would. People want more than one source, well, here it is.
Now for your insults, I most gratefully accept your apologies.
suprsleep1 Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Agreed with InspectEverything….Like Chemotherapy is real good for the body and the mind. My wife and I have already mad the choice that if either one of us gets cancer, we are NOT getting ANY form of Chemo. READ sheeple…..detoxing your body does wonders. There is an assortment of books on natural cures. Do you think big pharma wants everyone to know about CHEAP ways to heal the body.?????
Leave OUR Native Peoples alone, every one of them!... Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
F U NWO!! Leave Our Indigenous Peoples alone!! Once and for all, I am not the only person riled up by this, and I am confident I am not the Last one either.. OUR ancestors Messed UP BIG time with the Indigenous Peoples, and I will not sit idly by and let any more of them become victimized… in all of North America.. so NWO… go screw your own lives up before harming anyone elss’s, especially the Indigenous Peoples, its up to Us now to take care of them too.. not you NWO…
Red Dawn 09 Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Seems to me that if they wanted to live the old ways then they should have done it on a reservation or other wilderness retreat so as to not have any involvment from the government. Im mostly native american and if I made this mistake of trying to practice diffrent medicine in society and it did not work as the whitemans medicine might have well you pay to play. So if you want the benifits of society then you have to take the shortcomings also. Click my name for more information on todays hottest topics including swine flu,Ron Paul,Bilderberg and others. Movies,video’s,blog’s,text and when you cant cram anymore, Games. Updated daily and newly awakened patriots welcome.
Shizat Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
I think we are all forgetting that Chemotherpay is a treatment and not a cure, and the fact that the Nazi’s created it as torture should be reason enough not to take the treatment.
The real cure for cancer is is out there, reasearch raising alkaline levels. Cancer cells cannot survive in high alkaline content.
Liberty or death. Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Shizat, is that true, about the chemo?? I did not know that. Very interesting.. thanks for adding to my knowledge. I’ve thought chemo was bs for some time now, and have heard info about the high alkaline levels killing off cancer from one of my in-laws. The truth is so suppressed, we must search for it.
HIS WILL Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 12:13 am
We have been drinking kangen “LIVING WATER” for a few months now, and I thank GOD that we discovered this …. alkaline, multi-clustered water …. Stops ACId in body so the body can detox and heal. Being alkaline balanced is a normal state that God intended for us to be. THIS water alkaline balances the body = NO DISEASE .. CANCER and other diseases thrive in an ACIDIC body AMAZING testimonies!!!
Gary Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
What do you think the reservations are? They were all established by the federal government, by force. It doesn’t matter where these people make their stand. This country is as much theirs as anyone’s and they have every right to defend their way of life, no matter where they live.
Johnny Jazz Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
I agree with GARY & SHIZAT, but [Seems to me that if they wanted to live the old ways then they should have done it on a reservation or other wilderness retreat so as to not have any involvment from the government]
IS a VERY IMPORATANT CONCEPT, and WE who were BORN in the 1940’s, and GREW UP in PROVISHED POOR RURAL MOUNTAIN AREAS (I lived in GHOLSON, TEXAS * in BOONE COUNTY, ARKANSAS) where NO ELECTRICS , NO INSIDE PLUMBING, COOKING with WOOD, Raising TruckFarms, Milking NANNIEGOATS & perhaps a Single Milk Cow, Killing a Faily HOG this time of year, KEEPING CHICKENS, DUCKS, GUINREAS, et al….
NOW THIS LIFE IS FORBIDDEN! Only if you search out In PROVERTY POCKETS in Kentucky, West Virginny, East Tennedsee, etc. (THE ABLOULETE POOREST get NO ATTENTION!) these Still Poor STARVING. But they only are SUBSISTING!
In MORE CIVILIZED but LESS REGULATERED Nations ( Bulgaria, Poland, Georgia, Etc.) THEM PEOPLE KEEP THE OLD WAYS!
The UP-START USofA is barely 212 Years old, WHAT DO WE KNOW? In “OLD WORLD” Nations PEOPLE are HEALTHY & HAPPY with Ols Timey Ways!
pfft Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
they each recieved 1 mont of jail time per year over next 10 years, and probation. they could have been jailed for a long time for neglagence of a child, even though they believed that they were doing the right thing by healing through prayer, i tend to agree with ksh on the necessity of medication, its a parent duty to know the harmful vaccinations and medications that are offered by pharma’s, but also to know the benificials as well, They had the answer to thier prayer all along with the bleesing of medical healing knowledge given to a local doctor.
pfft Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
But i do feel for them for loosing thier child
escapefromlalaland Reply:
October 11th, 2009 at 12:20 am
They should have also detoxed their child.
Diabeties can be caused by heavy metals and viruses from the VACCINES. I took out my dental fillings filled with mercury 2 years ago. I was at pre-diabeties levels according to my blood tests. Now two years later..after detoxing the heavy metals with chlorella and taking lots of herbs, essaic tea, elderberry for viruses, whole food supplements..i am now in normal levels and not pre-diabetic anymore. You can fix your own body without their harmful medications.
And from someone who is not religious…never wanted anything to do with it. I have recently read about “quantum physics” and how thoughts and prayer can influence cells and your bodies healing. Read the “Intention Experiment” and see how this has been proven to be a fact! Although, I still would never just rely on prayer..i would be DETOXING DETOXING AND MORE DETOXING. Diabeties is very curable..eat raw vegies every day..and detox and get mercury fillings out of teeth and then detox the mercury with chlorella. And the flouride in the water can cause diabeties..get a shower filter!
aabigboo1939 Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
I live in Wausau WI and have followed this case from the beggining, it’s hard not to when it is in my own back yard. This family has been devistated by the loss of their daughter. The have been publicly and privately tried over and over again on the 2 TV media news stations and the Wausau Daily Herald. While I also would have made a different decision with medical care for 1 of my own children it is not my place to sit in the seat of condemnation. They had there GOD beliefs and really what this is (in my opinion) is an attack on both family and a persons specific religious practice. They will have to live with this for the remainder of their lives. They trusted GOD and I don’t believe that GOD let them down, however this is a wake call to all Americans and the citizens of Wausau WI and Marathon County that you don’t matter, only the state matters. Yes these people are good people and as far as the judgement handed down well it could have been worse, however the jail time and length of the probation, too stiff. Isn’t losing there daughter punishment enough? (Again in my own opinion) I think they have a lifetime sentence evreyday of the loss of their daughter.
MAD DOG Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 8:49 am
THEY NEED TO LOCK UP THE BIBLE THUMPER LUNITICS AS WELL
Common Sense Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 8:58 am
This WAS neglect you maniacs! There is no God to answer their prayers and religion is bull! To use the phrase many of you seem to use for every thing else, but not the biggest and most obvious conspiracy in history, “Wake Up!”
Freedom is Voluntary Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 9:06 am
The author distinguishes between a “necessity” and “contingency” to rationalize that THE STATE has the RIGHT to your life in the boundary of “necessity” but not “contingency”. And he’s a “salt of the earth” kind of guy, right?
No one has a right that everyone else does not have. That’s universal. That’s logical. That’s ethics.
http://www.FreeDomainRadio.com
It's Called Freedom Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 9:44 am
It was their religion and the state has no say as to what they can and can’t do. Remember, this country was founded on “Freedom Of Religion” not freedom From religion. Separation of church and state should have clearly covered these parents actions. The judge should be hung from the neck and anyone who says they are guilty of a crime. If they are sent to prison I hope someone breaks them out.
Margie Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
it’s called Freedom. THis country was founded on religion and the right to be free from Religion. other wise we would not have broken away from England. You should take a class on Constitutional Law, for a semester like i did, and then you will understand about America and the freedom to BE an Atheist or a Bible Thumper,
The legal system is not just black and white it is set up to be gray, in its interpretation of its legal jurisprudence. The issue in this case wasn’t Faith it was the neglect of the child under Wisconsin law. so you can’t say that seperation of Church and State should have clearly had any weight in this manner regarding the parents guilt of said crime. no matter how you feel emotionally about the case, it doesn’t matter in our legal system. T he next case might weigh in the parents favor and it will also set a precedent . so don’t think all cases will end up jailing the parents. I hope this makes you feel better.
y therlow Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
The question is who makes the decision concerning medical treatment. The authority of another is not the government, nor doctors or any other “professional”, this is an individual choice and delegated to whom the person chooses and if not able to communicate than nearest relative’ decision. And the leading of a spiritual person is not the business of ruling authorities; I believe human rights are protected by the Law of the land and not be questioned by government.
Noodles123 Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Faith healing works but SOMETIMES you NEED to go to the doctor…Diabetes coma that killed this girl is TOTALLY preventable…I feel bad for the parents but they are idiots…Let them do the time.
Noodles123 Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Sorry meant Hodgkin’s
NO to Vaccines Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
For all anyone knows, “medical intervention” was the proxmiate cause of these deaths in the first place! The article doesn’t say what precipitated the onset of “severe illness,” in the Wisconsin case, but the case of the child with Hodgkin’s lymphoma — how do think young children get cancer? Most likely it was vaccine induced!
October 8th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Sad story. But none of my business.
Agreed Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Exactly the point. No one should get involved. No government especially. Why don’t they spend the time and our money figuring out which dirty vaccine gave the poor child diabetes.
Sickening. Rot in hell Judge whatever your dumb name is.
YELLOWHAK1 Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
hodgkins lymphoma–MICRO ORGANISMS live and killed viri and bacteria or their toxins. the polio vaccine was contaminated with a monkey virus now turning up in human bone, lung-lining (mesothelioma), brain tumors and lymphomas.
hodgkins lymphoma–FORMALDEHYDE (FORMALIN) major constituent of embalming fluid; poisonous if ingested. probable carcinogen; suspected gastrointestinal, liver, immune system, nerve, reproductive system and respiratory poison. linked to leukemia, brain, colon and lymphatic cancer. and many many more i listed on another story.
my niece passed away from lupus at the age of 15. native americans know all to well what their capable of and responsible for.
YELLOWHAK1 Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
THE CHILDS IMMUNE SYSTEM IS ALREADY COMPROMISED AND CHEMO MORE TIMES THAN NOT WILL KILL THE PERSON THEIR TRYING TO HELP. DOCTORS KNOW THIS. FAITH HEALERS DON’T JUST HEAL THROUGH FAITH RED DAWN 09. AFTER READING THE BEGINNING OF YOUR COMMENT I DOUBT I WILL TAKE ANYTHING YOU SAY SERIOUSLY. MUST BE THE OTHER RACE TALKING.
Johnny Canuck Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 8:40 am
If the child took the treatment and still died, would society hold the Medical profession responsible? The State is in our faces. These people will endure punishment for the rest of their lives. My condolences on your loss to both families mentioned.
October 8th, 2009 at 11:57 am
i wonder…when people are diying from a “reckless decision” to force a vaccine on the public that was never properly tested, will the criminal vaccine companies be sentenced? i doubt it
SPIRITBLADE Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
[BANG]
October 8th, 2009 at 11:59 am
These judges are acting way beyond their authority. They have no right and should themselves be forced to “medical” treatment.
October 8th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
This kind of stuff just enrages me. Medical treament is not under the authority of the government. Screw the FDA and the courts.
October 8th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0
October 8th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
So the government wants to keep you alive so they can complain about you and eliminate you themselves.
I would think given the current climate of the pseudo political upper echelon of leaders would be advocating faith healing.
And not to sound cliche but faith healing and the healthcare reform seem to have alot in common.
I guess they despise God (spirituality) more than they care to advance their own agenda.
Interesting…….
Pat D NH Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I smell a weakness.
October 8th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Advertised to make people weary of vaccine-avoiders, (and disciples of Yahshua).
Huh- go figure.
October 8th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
R.I.P AmeriKKKA. This is north America, the very same land of the OWNERS: native Americans. Live by corruption DIE by corruption!
October 8th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
God has given mankind wisdom and knowledge to use. Allowing a child to die when it can be treated and the child can live is neglect. Sorry, common sense rules. When we love another we want the best for them and to take care of them. We as caring humans should not sit by and watch them die an agonizing death. Just my thoughts.
Tcc Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Neptune, I personally think your a tool. Are you going to give your kids the Swine Flu shot? If you dont then what if they die from the flu?? Are you going to turn yourself in for neglect. Im sorry but I think your an Idiot. Just my thoughts.
Medicine Skeptic Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
I agree but it is also very uncomfortable to have to trust the current medical system that the majority of doctors follow with a card of symptoms and a drug from big pharma. These doctors kill many people with their medications. A lot of people die after going to the hospital. Granted broken bones and severe cuts are dealt with well but when internal problems happen watch out. You become their lab rat! I have a hard time trusting doctors and hospitals this day and age. Drug pushers for BIg Pharma.
Agreed Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
It’s not your child. Fuck off.
thereyago Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Exactly. ‘Nuff said.
Desslok Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Personally, I believe in the power of prayer. And chemo is pretty barbaric “treatment”. I don’t think anyone wanted to neglect the child. The parents didn’t want him to suffer, and found just as much hope in alternative treatments.
kp Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
agreed, although i think they (parents and her family) should be tortured like she essentially was. but i don’t take child suffering too lightly, whether it is from big pharma, the government, or ignorant parents.
October 8th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Talking to an imaginary friend is not going to heal your child. Western medicine has its flaws, I don’t agree that surgery or medication is always the answer, but use some common sense, geez… but this could have been prevented if it wasn’t for there religious dogma.
WiseGuy Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
bad decision? sure.
but do you really agree that the government has the right to send them to prison – for a LONG time, I might add – because they didn’t choose chemotherapy?
this is a slippery slope. next thing you know, parents will be in jail for refusing vaccines. as it is, parents can already get into trouble for refusing ritalin if the school guidance counselor think they have ADHD and need it…
tragic, ignorant…. but only to be compunded exponentially by Big Brother getting involved.
Agreed Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
If chemo would have killed the child would the doctor go to prison? No.
the logic of truth Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
most modern doctors are usually tools for the big pharma corps and are usually spoiled kids from wealthy families to mantain their status of titles and wealth in the first line .
they didn’t choose to be docs or medics because of the ethic aspect in this line of work .
my reply to quote above :
“If chemo would have killed the child would the doctor go to prison? No”.
usually chemotherapy doesn’t kill instantly ( like the vaccines ) ,and that makes it easy for the big pharma corps to undermine and divert all other healing theories .
just remember the fact that all long therm deseases have the highest costs in health care , it’s the big buckkkk .
as for the chemo therapy :
we will vegetate anyway in this sick societies ruled by psychos and warmongers :
but with chemo therapy and similar treatments you’ll just trade the cancer ( mostly man provoked ) for other ( man provoked ) sicknesses .
whats the point there ?
top 2 bick buck businesses :
1. selling arms
2. selling drugs ( legal or ilegal ones )
P.S.
the commonwealth offspring countries will suffer and remain drowned in ignorance until they will have a real native person for president .
P.S. 2 : obama of jewish heritage ?
read here :
http://thelogicoftruth.blogspo.....first.html
have a nice day
kp Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
gd, read the entire story. the people being persecuted are the the chemo parents.
DERP Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
when i was in elementary school one of the counselors said ” you need to tell your parents that you should be taking ritalin” bitch was fired the next day…theres nothing the public school system is more afraid of than parents who actually care about their child…more parents that intervine in the state control of their kids…the more likely these cock bags will slink back to the herpies infested asshole they crawled out of…
kp Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
i’m sorry, but this article, if you read the headline, and the entire story, is about parents who literally let their child die from diabetes. the child went into kidney failure right before their eyes. they prayed and the child died. they made a reference to the chemo child, but the story is about something else. read on.
Johnny Canuck Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 8:53 am
If they were given other options other than just chemo and drugs, they may have went that way – I’m talking about Holistic and Herbal and diet. The Medical profession pooh-poohs alternative approaches because they want to dig deep into your pockets. They deliberately keep people in the dark about these things and give them no other choices. People are just lab rats to Big Pharma. Could I have another tasty cup ‘o Flouride pleeze?
October 8th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Great Article, another example of the people demanding that our rights be taken away.
This evil broken leadership is extremely intelligent. But once you understand that they use our emotions against us, you have taken one step closer to being enlightened.
I’m sorry this kid died and I’m sorry that the parents didn’t know that diabetes is a treatable and reversable disease with proper diet…
October 8th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
well when they ram through health care, they will have Kevorkian vans crusin around ur neighborhood…would that be in your best intrest?
October 8th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
1. Well written article.
2. This case is really difficult to evaluate because it deals with beliefs, intent, parental rights and a sad outcome resulting in death of a minor.
3. If there were no indications of intent to harm, I do not feel the parents should serve any time in prison. Since the child had diabetes, perhaps some required awareness courses on medical and alternative helps for diabetes would have been an appropiate recommendation since it may run in the family and crop its head again.
4. The person who said” this is not my business” may fail to see the precedent that can be set by cases like this. It hits to the heart of human rights and responsibilities.
YELLOWHAK1 Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
AFTER READING ALL THE BRAIN DEAD COMMENTS I CAN SEE HOW FORCED VACCINATIONS COULD BE IMPLEMENTED. THERE ARE DAYS IM HOPEFUL AND DAYS NOT SO MUCH.
the logic of truth Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
agreed 100 000 000 000 000 %
roaddog6 Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
I would have to agree. They made a healthcare worker I know take the flu shot today and next week they have to take the h1n1 shot. They said it was mandatory. I went off.
kp Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
brain dead, like the people who sat and watched their child die, while chanting to a god. my brain is alive and well and we don’t vaccinate. but i wouldn’t watch my child die from my ignorance either.
Placebo Effect Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 8:30 am
Chanting to God is statistically just as effective as chemotherapy. So, if you’re saying you would choose chemo, you would be just a brain dead as those who chant. Ignorance is most often a matter of who you choose to believe, and who you choose to ignore.
kp Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 9:54 am
oh, you are another person that failed to read the entire article. that happens. there is a serious case of laziness spreading around here. i’m arguing the point of the helpless diabetic child that was left to die while others chanted. i’m not speaking of the forced chemo patient.
October 8th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
If they are married with a state marriage license, then by law the state has the right to intervene. If you have a state marriage license then you have asked the state for permission to be married, thus you are subject to their rule. Yes I know most churches will not marry you without one, but it is not law that you have to have a state license to be married. They may not recognize it as a marriage, by legal stance for claming any kind of insurance or will. Best thing to do is check your states laws on this subject.
shizat Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Are you insane? Yes you ‘ask permission’ to get married. That DOESNT by any legal, ethical, or moral code mean that the state has a say in the affaris of your day to day life. Go spew your rhetoric to a group of sheeple. They will listen to the garbage you tout. The awakened individuals here will just generally ignore you.
Mr.Mike Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
It may seem like BS to you, but you might want to check with a lawer. That state license does give them the right to stick their nose up your ass. Any time you get any license for anything from the state you subjegate yourself to their rules.
mike Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Do you think if they were not married, (single) they would not be held to the same laws?
Being single does not control the law.
Please…Show me where I am wrong.
Mike
October 8th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
I’m sorry that this kid died to, but if that is what theyre family believes then who are “WE” to tell them any different. If you think that these people should be punished, do us all a favor and go kill yourself.
October 8th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
I think its long overdue to drasticallly scale back government power and vigilently monitor its actions over the citizens. More and more it is becoming god-like over everyones thougts and actiions. What happened to individual liberty and privacy? Shall we bow down and glorify other mens opinions on how one is to exist?
October 8th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
No where in the Constitution does it say anyone has to provide medical attention to anyone. As a matter of fact I’m sure it does’nt say it in the any of the bible’s either. For all of you people that believe so much in your god feel this his his will. While others that say they believe in god feel as though he’s ok to believe in accept when someone is sick. Personally, this is life, people live and people die. Much worse has happened in this world and here people pass judgement. What makes sense to you won’t make sense to that retarded person sitting in the corner beating himself in the head with a hammer. Reality is what it is, and every sees a different reality and has different priorites/beliefs, you don’t have to like them but respect them. What people do is their own business period. If you want to cry a river for someone cry about all the Russian girls sold into slavery for protitution, or better yet for yourself, because you live in a world of shot an yet do nothing.
October 8th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
But the govt doesn’t step in to protect innocent babies from their limbs being ripped apart! Suddenly they are so concerned about this one girls life! Much bigger picture here sheeple! More conditioning to make us think the gov’t will protect us!
freakin hypocrites!
October 8th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
here in San Diego there is sex trafficking going on in our canyons…yet our law enforcement was ready with the LRAD to use on American citizens at local town hall meetings!! we can send a man to the moon, send our guys to go freakin free another country and yet this satanic filth continues right here in Amerika’s finest city…no worries the effin charger game is more important!!!!!
roaddog6 Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
when did someone go to the moon?
October 8th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
We throw 50 million babies in the garbage and the government is worried about 1 kid getting chemo? It’s not about the child. It’s about big brother wanting more control.
Jason the Fed
FightOrDie!!! Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Jason – The Truth About Chematherapy: Linus Pauling Ph.D. 2 time Nobel Prize winner (1901-1994): “Everyone should know that most cancer research is largely a fraud and that the major cancer research organisations are derelict in their duties to the people who support them.”/ Ralph Moss, PhD, former Director of Information for Sloan Kettering Cancer Research Center: “Chemotherapy is basically ineffective in the vast majority of cases in which it is given, the exceptions being acute lymphocytic leukemia, Hodgkin’s disease, nonseminomatous testicular cancer, as well as a few very rare forms of cancer, including choriocarcinoma, Wilm’s tumor, and retinoblastoma.”/ Dr. Samuel S. Epstein Congressional Record, Sept. 9, 1987: “Chemotherapy and radiation can increase the risk of developing a second cancer by up to 100 times”/ Alan C Nixon, PhD former president of the American Chemical Society: “…as a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incomprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good.”/ Dr. Martin Shapiro UCLA: “Cancer researchers, medical journals, and the popular media all have contributed to a situation in which many people with common malignancies are being treated with drugs not known to be effective.”/ Dr. Candace Pert, Georgetown University School of Medicine: “Except for two forms of cancer, chemotherapy does not cure. It tortures and may shorten life — no one can tell from the available data.” There more proof that Chemotherapy does more harm than good: http://www.polymvasurvivors.com/truth_chemo.html
October 8th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
You’ve got to see what the anti-war movement looked like when America still had one, which was before the left killed it and the Obama administration expanded the wars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....annel_page
October 8th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
I believe if they are still in jail and we have not done nothing for them that will be the same way each and everyone of us will be headed to camp fema with out anyone taking a stand I say we write congress where this happened by the masses or drive all the way where they are held incarcerated and protest instead
October 8th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
HERE: Stream and Download ALL the best interviews and rants from the Alex Jones Show Archives:
http://alex-jones-archives.politicsfiles.info/
TODAY:
- Alan Watt:Divide & Conquer
- Max Keiser:Kiss The Dollar Goodbye!!
- David Icke:Center of The Spider-Web!
- IBM to Produce MARK of The BEAST Chip!
- William Lewis & Gary Franchi:Camp Fema
Backup your favorite episodes, don’t miss any!
October 8th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
History is repeating itself! ,Look at the way the Indians were treated in the 1800″s by the goverment. the same now is going to happen to every day citizens in the near furture!!!!. exspendable we are.
October 8th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Barack Hussien Obama does not like Native Americans!
kp Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
jesus fucking christ! you all need to know when you have taken this too far. letting a child die is murder. it is sad that native americans have been stripped away of any heritage they had left, like natural medicines, and healthy food that GOES ALONG WITH THEIR PRAYER. living on prayer alone, fucking pathetic nonsense. And every child deserves a right to live healthy, without poison from big pharma, big government and ignorant parents. HAVING FREEDOM DOES NOT EQUATE A LAWLESS SOCIETY. YOU ALL MAKE ME FUCKING SICK!
wahoo Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 7:42 am
So is abortion. Does anybody go to jail for that?
October 8th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
I’m from Wisconsin and the law here states you can use prayer for healing instead of medical treatments.Here are the Wisconsin Statutes: 948.03 (6), 448.03 (6) and 48.981(3)(c)4; all allow residents to use prayer in lieu of medical or surgical treatment.Put that in you peace pipe and smoke it!
October 8th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
F ck the judge, F ck the government & F ck the NWO!!! You know how many children have died because they needed some kind of operation that costs thousands of dollars, their parents couldn’t afford them & the doctor wouldn’t do it free of cost? Why wouldn’t the government pay for those childrens in need of those operations, since they “care” so much? F ck them!!!
Um Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Not to mention chemotherapy is a BARBARIC treatment. We know how to target -just the cancer cells- with NO HARM TO ANY OTHER TISSUE. Google “Royal Rife” and check out this real clinical study showing it works! http://www.jeccr.com/content/28/1/51
October 8th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
“WakeUp” http://www.archive.org/details/WakeUp_542
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Um Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
It’s a 3 minute anti-NWO song… thankfully anyone reading these comments is likely already awake. How do we reach the masses? Billboards, advertising, etc. let’s get it together!
October 8th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
I don’t have all the facts like how old this girl was and how many vaccines and shots may have been pumped into her. So we don’t know who really contributed to her death. It may have been the government and big pharma.
October 8th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
letting your child die is murder. they should be convicted. just because we want freedom, doesn’t mean we have to live in a lawless society. treatments should be an option for the parent, but withholding treatment and literally watching your child suffer, that is crime that needs punishment. and i say let them lay on a floor while others withhold things that would keep them living. oh, i’m not that cruel, i’d say a little prayer too.
An European Voize Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
but of course, forcing people to undergo chemo
ripping off their hope
of getting better with proven medication
is not called neglection
doctors who go against these pharma gangsters
have to flee for their lives
and still keep saving lives of others
people don’t realize how many igorant people are dying in hospitals every day on this planet
who could have been saved elsewhere!
but they got the money and keep your mouth shut
they are murderes in white jackets!
kp Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
see my other posts, and i believe i said treatments should be an option. what part did you not get about freedom does not equate lawless society. children have rights. they are unable to care for themselves, so that is the parents’ responsibility to keep them safe, and healthy, oh and living. let’s not forget that. do you think i don’t know about white jacket murderers. last time i checked my moral code, two wrongs don’t make a right. murderers come in all types, including ignorant parents.
kp Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
another person that didn’t read the entire article. i’m not talking about forced chemo, my argument is about the actual story, the diabetic child. it really shows everyone’s true ignorance when they want to start making comments without having read the story.
Dr. Sardonicus Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
You’re ’spot on’, kp. The parents are totally guilty of negligent homicide..and it’s especially despicable considering that it was their OWN CHILD they allowed to die.
I’m a *fundamentalist christian*, too (gasp!!! haha)…imagine that! The Bible can be a tremendous blessing, OR a curse. It can bless those who take the time to read it and understand it…but a curse to those who take parts of it out of dispensational context and misapply them.
What a tragedy! I just read a similar story about a young kid who was allowed to die of bacterial pneumonia in similar fashion (miserably). Listen, foolish christian parents: Get your children medical help if it’s indicated. Don’t be jackasses who the world will use to ridicule christianity! Use your heads!
Semper Fi, Chris in Colorado
m Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
I agree, with illness, sometimes there is a time to turn to professional medical help!
Know and have faith in the doctors you choose.
October 8th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
now they crossed that line
they just kill your kids right before your eyes
U.S. government is no better than Saddam Hussein!!!
YELLOWHAK1 Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
THATS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO MY NIECE. THEY KNEW DAMN WELL SHE WASN’T GOING TO MAKE IT EITHER WAY BECAUSE OF THE TYPE OF LUPUS SHE HAD BUT THEY WENT THROUGH ALL THE MOTIONS ANYWAYS TIL IT KILLED HER QUICKER THAN IF THEY LET IT RUN ITS COURSE SO TO ALL OF YOU FUCK OFF! IM OUTTA HERE.
October 8th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
When one dumps the medical est (and I’m all for that), one must FIRST dump the food industry. If you eat the food industry poison, you will get the med establishment illness’s. One follows the other. I wish folks would realize how much of the beast that we are fighting against is found in the food industry….DUMP THEM!!!!!
October 8th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
the biggest mistake when it comes to healing a human is :
to believe that you only have to cure the body or the body symptoms to heal fully .
when a human is sick than he/she is sick in the whole and healing only the body is mostly pointless .
soul and spirit are sick too and they need to be cured too .
have a nice day
October 8th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
What ever happened to each and every ones sovereignty and rights I as a parent decide whats best for my child if its prayer or its medication but in this case I would of chosen prayer where is your faith just image if it was the swine flu would you take the shot or the vaccine the only reason people have sickness is with all this shot and vaccines this goverment has experimented on us all dont blame the parents blame the NWO …..
October 8th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Native American Faith Healers….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zl3I5y4cZc
You should know that 8 out of 10 food on shelf was develop by us…..
Many of your drugs are synthetics made by the planet sources we know about and have used for eons….
we had like brush bark books and all kinds thing here….
October 8th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
chemotherapy has never cured cancer, it kills you! many natural methods can cure you! that judge is a murderer. look at patrick swayze, he may have survived if it wasn’t for chemo!
October 8th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
i READ SOMEWHERE THAT CANCER IS A FUNGUS AND CAN BE TREATED WITH BAKING SODA. ——————————???
Truth for life Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
you can treat cancer with H202 but that water with an extra oxygen molecule is some dangerous bomb making material better ban it because it cures cancer uh I mean makes bombs!
October 8th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
they were being tested by god and god wanted them to call the doctor … test failed … bummer … god wanted them to handle it without cps … test failed
October 8th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Damn they’ve started chemtrailing again over Las Vegas. Something is happening cause this is the first chemtrails I’ve seen over vegas in a month. They poison us and then they tell us how to treat it and what to take. I know for a fact you do not need big pharma drugs(poisons). Natural works better and is 99.9 percent safer.
m Reply:
October 8th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
I’ve noticed that in the last few weeks they have significantly slacked off in chem-bombing Houston as well. I hope it’s not about to pick up again.
It MAKES ME VERY, VERY ANGRY.
October 8th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
wow you guys respon very fast
October 8th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
This is BS, people have the RIGHT to choose what medical treatment they want. We have the freedom make choices. We have the RIGHT to worship what we choose. I am just waiting for the dipping splatter twat spiritblade to come spread mor eof his christian terrorism about how it was native american medicine men and not snake worshiping child molesters catholic priests.
October 8th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
How many children have been through conventional treatment, losing their hair, being in a hospital w/ strangers, endless tests, tons of side effects from meds, watching their own bodies waste away (and families go broke) AND STILL DIED!! Can those parents be held accountable for making the wrong decision? How about the doctors? Should people call DCFS (the state) every time they see a parent allowing their child to eat fast food and drink red bull? If a child is obese, or borderline obese..when do we make that call or charge them w/ a crime. It’s unfortunate that there are a lot of do-gooders out there that don’t realize that this will not end..until the state has complete control and parents are unnecessary.
October 8th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Had the child lived; would we be reading this article? Would we be commenting on this?
If the child lived the parents actions still would have met the states definition of “Neglect;” Right?
Neglect in this case was not seeking “Conventional” medical care; not the child dying.
If your child skins his knee, and you clean and bandage the knee without taking him to the emergency room; wouldn’t you be guilty of neglect according to this judge?
If your child gets a fever and you take a day off from work to watch him, and not take him to the Doctor; wouldn’t you be guilty of neglect? After all; Fever kills thousands of children every year.
What if the dentist recommends you child get braces and you can’t afford it?
Aren’t you guilty of neglect by refusing treatment for your childs overbite?
October 8th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
you love this pimpin
October 9th, 2009 at 12:21 am
I bet you everything I have that all these families and children had marriage licenses and birth certificates. This is how and why they are being prosecuted and sent to jail. These bastards under the color of law couldn’t care less about the deaths or injuries of these children. What about the hundreds of thousands of deaths and injuries to children each year caused by the demon pharmaceutical criminal cartel? Do you see any of these murders going to jail? What about the brain dead health care workers who mindlessly go along with the brain washing agenda if not also a part of the conspiracy for the sake of their jobs and positions?
**NOTICE TO ALL HEALTH CARE PRACTITIONERS**
YOUR FUTURE POSSIBLE PARTICIAPTION IN A
MANDATORY VACCINATION PROGRAM WILL BE
ILLEGAL. IF IMPLEMENTED, IT WILL VIOLATE THE
CONVENTIONS OF VARIOUS CONSTITUTIONS,
CHARTERS, AND OATHS (DOCTORS), INCLUDING
INTERNATIONAL LAW.
IF YOU PARTICIPATE IN A COMING MANDATORY
VACCINATION PROGRAM, YOU COULD BE LOGGED
FOR EVENTUAL LEGAL PROSECUTION.
DO NOT ASSUME THAT THE LEGAL PROTECTIONS
AFFORDED YOU VIA AN ‘INTERNATIONAL
EMERGENCY’, ‘MARTIAL LAW’ OR ‘WAR TIMES ACT’
WILL PROTECT YOU. THE DOCTOR’S UNDER THE
NAZI REGIME USED THE SAME JUSTIFICATIONS
UNDER A WAR TIME ‘EMERGENCY.’
THEY WERE THE FIRST ONES TO BE TRIED AND
PROSECUTED DURING THE NUREMBURG TRIALS.
RESPECT THE FREE WILL OF THE INDIVIDUAL NOT
TO BE FORCE VACCINATED. THANK YOU.
October 9th, 2009 at 5:41 am
So much for freedom of religion.
October 9th, 2009 at 7:38 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=channel
October 9th, 2009 at 7:45 am
So much for freedom of choice!
October 9th, 2009 at 8:46 am
Is it neglect, and can I be punished, to let my kids and grand kids play Nintendo or watch TV for 8 to 10 hours a day instead of doing homework?
AbuBakerSmith Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 11:20 am
no, that’s fine. those games are approved to brainwash future slaves for the NWO.
October 9th, 2009 at 10:20 am
INFOWARS: GET A COMPETENT EDITOR! “They’re daughter…” are you kidding me?
October 9th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Obama wants to take the land from the RedSkinned Savages!!!
October 9th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Stay the fuck out of our lives or face the consequences.
October 9th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Suicide is illegal, the government owns us.
These families deprived the U S with fodder for future wars and therefore must be punished.
October 9th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
As if the U.S. government actually has any legitimate authority whatsoever… What about the genocide of 95% of the original Native American population? What about the Indian Residential Schools (which were really just concentration camps)? What about the nuclear testing on Native lands? What about the ongoing genocide against indigenous peoples in the Middle East and elsewhere? The U.S. government is a completely illegitimate, genocidal terrorist organization with no right to rule over anyone. U.S. law protects U.S. war criminals who violate international law, so U.S. law is worthless. U.S. cops and troops, and other armed government terrorists, should be resisted. People have a right to self-determination, and a right to self-defense. Dismantle Uncle Sam! Check out http://www.antiimperialism.wordpress.com
October 9th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
what about slavery of african americans, the government is out of control. not just the indians but with everybody. blacks ,whites , whoever. humans period. know this when they come to kill u there will not be a color barrier. we all need to wake up. i feel for the family and i feel for every human being in the times we live today. WAKE UP PEOPLE
October 9th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
The article has many holes in it, but from what I got out of it, it seems or possible have been treated at a government hospital? Considering the way many government run hospitals are on the Native American premises. I would have been willing to do the same thing! Most government hospitals are poorly run; my guesses are the parents thought they could do better!
October 9th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
In reality, they should have taken the child to the doctor.
YELLOWHAK1 Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
oh im sure they did thats where the kid probably got hodgkins lymphoma (vaccinations) through their local indian clinic. i would bet that kids been vaccinated and in reality most of us have.
October 10th, 2009 at 2:57 am
Lelani is Hawaiian, Haunani is Hawaiian, what’s w/ the native accusations? Indians rock.
October 10th, 2009 at 11:08 am
John Titor arrested for giving Hadron Collidor Secrets to Al Queda
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?f.....eId=112455
October 10th, 2009 at 11:57 am
How contradictory. Either the government wants to kill you and your children or else they want to jail you and accuse you of killing your children?! It seems like they just want to harass and bother citizens no matter what.
October 10th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
There are lots of angles to comment on when it comes to this case…
When it comes to the state interfering with parents raising their children, there should be a huge wall where only real cases of neglect or physical abuse happen that actually threaten the life of the child. Unfortunately, we hear of the state breaking up families and kidnapping the children due to bogus reasons, such as spanking, homeschooling, or the children being a couple of pounds overweight.
As for these case, the state should not be determining what’s “appropriate” medical care, and these cases should not be deemed “neglect”. Yes, some methods of medical care are better than other, but if you leave it to the state, they’ll always prescribe the western, allopathic medical “care” lobbied by big pharma, where sick-care is promoted over real cures because it’s much more profitable. If that child died in the hands of the “orthodox” medical care, they’re for the most part above any accountability, and they would just give the “we did our best” song and dance. But of course, straying from the western “sick care” can make a parent liable to “neglect”, even though many other natural therapies are often more effective. (See Billy Best’s story: http://www.naturalnews.com/026.....News.html)
If you want my opinion as a believer, when it comes to healing, asking God, Yahweh, our creator, for physical healing is a valid way to do so, and should be the first way! If there’s no immediate healing, then seek medical treatment (and I say natural first before allopathic, unless it’s an emergency), and find out later why there was no divine healing. Ask, and you shall receive. One may need to re-examine their faith, or examine himself to see if there is a sin, or hypocrisy, or false religion in his life that stood in the way of receiving the healing. The Bible does in a lot of places link forgiveness from sins with physical healing. In this particular case, there can be many reasons why the child died. Perhaps to take the child safely out of harm’s way from the soon to be coming tribulation. This does not negate the existence or the power of God.
Finally, this story reveals the contradictions of our society and governments. A baby in the womb can be subject to a brutal death by abortion. The parents can kill their unborn child. However, once their born, then so many restrictions are put on the parents under the guise of “protecting the children”. For instance, spanking or homeschooling your child can get the CPS to show up at your door, and pursuing non “conventional” medicine for your children can have you facing charges of “neglect”! Isn’t it obvious governments work for the best interests of lobbyists and the new world order.
October 10th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Hey you know what. I agree that this couples judgement was lacking but what I wonder is: how come mainstream medicine does not undergo the same scrutiny as alternative medicine? Mainstream medicine is often(not always) quackery and the incompetence of doctors often kills people.
October 11th, 2009 at 2:20 am
go see this http://thearrivals.blogspot.com/
especially part 41 bloodlines and u will understand, but the complete serie also show, there is so much more behind. wake up
Spread the truth and stop this psychopaths
either you are with us (Satanists) or with the terrorists (diffenrent churches)
after this films you know, what this means really
Fight for liberty, show it police and military people and ask them, what they think, one time work is done, whats happen with temselfs, if they are no needed anymore????????
vaccine too?????????
make them Thinking !!! Thats our work right now, spread the truth to turn police and military to the favor of liberty and freedom !!
god bless you all
October 15th, 2009 at 1:13 am
Wow. I got linked by Infowars. Nice to be noticed.
Since writing this piece, I’ve been engaged in various threads of conversation at different sites and found the same basic disagreement throughout. I summarized it this way at RightNation.us:
This issue seems to touch upon something beneath the surface of our society which often goes unaddressed because we have found ways to skirt around it. It occurs to me that many regard religious freedom as the freedom to believe whatever you want to believe, so long as those beliefs do not manifest in any corporeal way which offends a neighbor’s sensibilities. You can believe what you want, I infer from folks, but you can’t actually conduct your life by it. You can’t decide to rely upon your silly god when we have science and medicine to turn to. We (society, i.e. the majority) get to decide for you what treatment is, what care is, and your silly god isn’t it. That strikes me as a plain lack of religious freedom. I have the unalienable right, not just to believe what I choose to believe, but to conduct my life by that belief. In concert with my unalienable right and obligation to raise my child, I am compelled to direct their care in accordance with those beliefs.
Now, [many] bring up all these hypotheticals in an attempt to demonstrate the need for some limitation on that freedom. I have repeatedly acknowledged, from my first post on the subject, that such limits should and do exist. Should a parent be able to marry off their twelve-year-old daughter because their religion says they can? No. Of course not. Religion likewise cannot excuse molestation, human sacrifice, or any other infliction of harm upon a child. Medical decisions fall into an entirely different category. A medical decision to pursue a course of treatment is not neglect because the course chosen is not mainstream. I think we do ourselves a disservice if we fail to make that distinction. Doctors make decisions everyday that are little more than educated guesses. We rarely question their motives, because we place faith in their expertise and the science upon which they rely. That someone chooses to place their faith in something other than science does not make them neglectful. To say that it does is to take a position on the legitimacy of someone’s god. As individuals, we are free to do that, to call someone’s religion crazy, to judge them for making what in our estimation is a foolish choice. The principle of religious freedom is supposed to bar the state from doing the same. It is to remain neutral on the subject.
October 15th, 2009 at 1:19 am
BTW, not to nitpick, but the altered headline makes an incorrect reference. The Neumanns are not Native American. There was a similar story involving followers of a Native American sect in a neighboring state which I reference in the first paragraph. The Neumanns actually belong to some Christian sect, as derived from their quotes in the AOL article.