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Telecom Companies in Cahoots with Illegal Bush Admin Surveillance Programs
- Text size
Tom Burghardt / Global Research | May 28, 2008
The hot-button issue of retroactive immunity for telecom companies in cahoots with illegal Bush administration surveillance programs is close to reaching its inevitable dénouement.
But what’s gotten little media play throughout the endless months of "debate" are the huge piles of cash that have changed hands to influence congressional Democrats and Republicans.
According to Glenn Greenwald:
Just in the first three months of 2008, recent lobbyist disclosure statements reveal that AT&T spent $5.2 million in lobbyist fees (putting it well ahead of its 2007 pace, when it spent just over $17 million). In the first quarter of 2008, Verizon spent $4.8 million on lobbyist fees, while Comcast spent $2.6 million. So in the first three months of this year, those three telecoms–which would be among the biggest beneficiaries of telecom amnesty (right after the White House)–spent a combined total of almost $13 million on lobbyists. They’re on pace to spend more than $50 million on lobbying this year–just those three companies. ("How Telecoms Are Attempting to Buy Amnesty from Congress," Salon, May 24, 2008)
No matter how you squeeze it, that’s a lot of corporatist "juice" flowing into campaign coffers.
Until, that is, you consider that "outsourced" government contracts are worth tens of billions of dollars annually to enterprising telecom companies for communications and IT services to a gaggle of shadowy intelligence agencies fighting to "keep America safe"–from lower quarterly earnings!
Ranging from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the National Security Agency (NSA), not to mention low profile "partners" such as the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) or the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency (NGA)–$50 million is chump change.
And what are these corporate pirates seeking from Congress? Why "get-out-of-jail-free-cards," of course!
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Behind closed doors, House and Senate negotiators are "are closing in on a deal" with the White House over illegal government domestic spying, The Wall Street Journal reported Friday.
Touted as a "compromise" and a "major breakthrough" by both Democrats and Republicans, the deal would "would kick the issue to a secret national-security court. Earlier versions of the legislation wanted to grant telecom companies blanket retroactive immunity from lawsuits," Siobhan Gorman avers.
However, according to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a civil liberties group representing plaintiffs in Hepting vs. AT&T, brought by AT&T customers in the wake of revelations of massive domestic spying by the Bush administration and their "private" partners in the telecom industry, the congressional "compromise" is a monumental fraud:
"The purported immunity ‘compromise’ announced on Thursday by Senator Bond is a pure sham that’s even worse than the original immunity provision passed by the Senate," said EFF Senior Staff Attorney Kevin Bankston. "The stacked-deck immunity determination to be made by the court apparently still doesn’t include any meaningful review of the telecoms’ conduct or the legality of their cooperation with the NSA, simply a review of whether the companies got a piece of paper saying that the president authorized the surveillance. And the deck would be stacked even more by the proposed transfer to the FISA court–the most conservative and secretive federal court in the nation. Bottom line: it’s still immunity, and this so-called compromise concedes nothing." ("EFF Blasts New ‘Compromise’ Offer on Teleco Immunity," Electronic Frontier Foundation, Press Release, May 23, 2008)
Some "compromise"!
According to the Federation of American Scientists, the FISA court,
…is responsible for reviewing and approving government applications under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act for domestic electronic surveillance and physical search of suspected foreign intelligence agents or terrorists.
But it does more than that. The Court also reinterprets the terms of the Act in an undisclosed fashion, producing in effect a body of "secret law," a matter discussed at an April 30 hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
"The FISC has in fact issued… legally significant decisions that remain classified and have not been released to the public," observed Judge John D. Bates, a member of the FIS Court, when he denied an ACLU motion for disclosure of portions of those decisions last December. ("Intel Surveillance Court Gets Two New Judges," Federation of American Scientists, Secrecy News, May 23, 2008)
During the April 30 Senate Judiciary Committee hearing referenced above, John P. Elwood, a DoJ official "disclosed a previously unpublicized method to cloak government activities," according to The New York Times.
In keeping with the Bush administration’s penchant for lawless behavior, Elwood acknowledged that the executive branch believed that "the president could ignore or modify existing executive orders that he or other presidents have issued without disclosing the new interpretation," Times’ reporters Scott Shane and David Johnson wrote.
Conceding nothing that would dispel fears that the administration is operating on the basis of "secret law" beyond the purview of the courts or Congress, the state’s "legal stance would let it secretly operate programs that are at odds with public executive orders that to all appearance remain in force," the Times reported.
Demonstrating profound contempt for classification rules, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), said the administration’s contention that it can "selectively modify" executive orders "turns The Federal Register into a screen of falsehoods behind whose phony regulations lawless programs can operate in secret."
In other words, following dictums laid down by French monarch, the "sun king" Louis XIV, the law is whatever our decider-president and his minions say it is.
While warrantless wiretapping and the subversion of law is bad enough, the question inevitably arises: what other programs are being hidden from the American people?
Investigative journalist Christopher Ketcham believes that a "highly classified program with sinister implications" may lie at the heart of Bush administration’s refusal to back-down on telecom immunity. Through an as yet-undisclosed "black program," the administration may be "compiling a secret enemies list of citizens who could face detention under martial law."
According to Ketcham, recounting Acting Attorney General James Comey’s now infamous 2004 tussle with the White House, and the bureaucrat’s refusal to reauthorize Bush’s illegal programs, Ketcham writes,
Yet in his testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee, he described how he had grown increasingly uneasy reviewing the Bush administration’s various domestic surveillance and spying programs. Much of his testimony centered on an operation so clandestine he wasn’t allowed to name it or even describe what it did. ("The Last Roundup," Radar, May/June 2008)
Welcome (once again) to the bizarro world of "Continuity of Government" whose illegally-beating dark heart may dwell in what intelligence insiders have called the ultra-top secret "Main Core" database.
Some months after The New York Times revealed in December 2005 that the Bush administration had illegally spied on Americans through its so-called "Terrorist Surveillance Program," USA TODAY reported,
With access to records of billions of domestic calls, the NSA has gained a secret window into the communications habits of millions of Americans. Customers’ names, street addresses and other personal information are not being handed over as part of NSA’s domestic program, the sources said. But the phone numbers the NSA collects can easily be cross-checked with other databases to obtain that information. (Leslie Cauley, "NSA has massive database of Americans’ phone calls," USA TODAY, May 11, 2006) [emphasis added]
Keep in mind that AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, the nation’s three largest telecommunication providers, are well-positioned to serve as the state’s "outsourced" eyes-and-ears. Collectively, the three carriers provide an array of services: local and long-distance calling, wireless and high-speed broadband internet access, as well as video and cable services.
Once communications information has been "fused" with records gleaned from commercially-available databases–sold, of course, to the state as a "patriotic" duty–NSA "partners" such as Booz Allen Hamilton, IBM, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, CACI and L-3, can then analyze data such as medical histories, travel itineraries, shopping habits, political affiliations, subscription lists, DVD rentals, etc. In a nanosecond, a unique profile of an individual’s "transactional" life has thus been created.
This however, is not without risk to offending spies and data-miners. And given the nature of financial penalties under section 222 of the Communications Act, telecom executives have every reason to sweat. The FCC "can levy fines up to $130,000 per day per violation, with a cap of $1.325 million per violation. The FCC has no hard definition of ‘violation.’ In practice, that means a single ‘violation’ could cover one customer or 1 million," Cauley reported.
But the Bush administration’s so-called "Terrorist Surveillance Program" may very well be a smokescreen for collecting political data on millions of Americans, a secret "enemies list" far more dangerous to a democratic society than anything conceived by the team of "national security" paranoids assembled by Richard Nixon. Ketcham reports,
According to a senior government official who served with high-level security clearances in five administrations, "There exists a database of Americans, who, often for the slightest and most trivial reason, are considered unfriendly, and who, in a time of panic, might be incarcerated. The database can identify and locate perceived ‘enemies of the state’ almost instantaneously." He and other sources tell Radar that the database is sometimes referred to by the code name Main Core. One knowledgeable source claims that 8 million Americans are now listed in Main Core as potentially suspect. In the event of a national emergency, these people could be subject to everything from heightened surveillance and tracking to direct questioning and possibly even detention. …
A host of publicly disclosed programs, sources say, now supply data to Main Core. Most notable are the NSA domestic surveillance programs, initiated in the wake of 9/11, typically referred to in press reports as "warrantless wiretapping." In March, a front-page article in the Wall Street Journal shed further light onto the extraordinarily invasive scope of the NSA efforts: According to the Journal, the government can now electronically monitor "huge volumes of records of domestic e-mails and Internet searches, as well as bank transfers, credit card transactions, travel, and telephone records." Authorities employ "sophisticated software programs" to sift through the data, searching for "suspicious patterns." In effect, the program is a mass catalog of the private lives of Americans. And it’s notable that the article hints at the possibility of programs like Main Core. "The [NSA] effort also ties into data from an ad-hoc collection of so-called black programs whose existence is undisclosed," the Journal reported, quoting unnamed officials. "Many of the programs in various agencies began years before the 9/11 attacks but have since been given greater reach."
As disturbing as Ketcham’s report is, consider this: the ACLU’s "Watch List Counter" documents that the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center currently lists (as of 5/26/08) 975,883 (!) individuals as potential "threats" to "national security." What are the criteria for inclusion? No one knows and the FBI and DHS aren’t saying.
It is of course absurd to believe there are nearly a million U.S. sympathizers of the Afghan-Arab database of disposable intelligence assets, aka al-Qaeda, roaming the streets of American cities. However, if history is any guide to present state surveillance activities, a database like Main Core, if it exists, would include dissidents and activists of all stripes, ranging from socialists and communists, anarchists, tax protestors, gun owners, lawyers and professors, "illegal" migrants, publishers and journalists, or just plain folk caught in the government’s data driftnet.
But over and above the question of telecom immunity for law-breaking communication corporations looms the issue of intelligence outsourcing as a lucrative business arrangement with the state, the ubiquitous "public-private partnership" in political repression that affect all our lives. As investigative journalist Tim Shorrock documents,
A second form of cooperation that few Americans are aware of concern the role of the telecom giants as contractors for the Intelligence Community. As commercial communications and encryption technologies advanced in the years leading up to 2001, AT&T, Verizon and the other major carriers were hired by the government to build classified communications networks for the NSA and Pentagon. That alliance spawned new institutions where the government could carry out a dialogue with these companies. Many industry executives, for example, hold leading positions in a secretive agency called the National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee, a group of business leaders who meet regularly with President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and senior officials in the Intelligence Community to discuss critical issues affecting the national telecommunications system. …
That broad alliance between the NSA and the government on one hand and the telecommunications and IT industries on the other is the fundamental issue at stake in the national debate that erupted around FISA in 2007 and 2008. That debate was about far more than a few telecom companies cooperating with the government. (Spies for Hire: The Secret World of Intelligence Outsourcing, New York: Simon & Schuster, 2008, pp. 307, 308)
In this context, the political economy of telecom immunity should be considered a shield for government "black" programs that could be quickly rolled-out during a "national emergency." That congressional leaders–Democrats and Republicans–would grant their corporate benefactors nearly unlimited power to spy on Americans, or worse, is an indication that elite consensus has been reached in favor of maintaining an all-encompassing surveillance state.
Tom Burghardt is a researcher and activist based in the San Francisco Bay Area. In addition to publishing in Covert Action Quarterly, Love & Rage and Antifa Forum, he is the editor of Police State America: U.S. Military "Civil Disturbance" Planning, distributed by AK Press.
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May 29th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Bush violating liberties,, go figure
May 29th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Anytime Bush offers complete and total immunity for an entire industry,,,,they must have done something really bad (or good for BushCo). When is he going to offer immunity for Controlled Demolition Inc? By the way…..What was Controlled Demolition Inc doing inside the WTC’s on Sat. Sept 8th and Sun Sept 9th 2001? What was Controlled Demolition Inc doing inside the OKCity Murrah building just 2 days before the bombing in April 1995? Why was Controlled Demolition Inc doing work with the Army Corps of Engineers just one day before the levee detonation in New Orleans in Sept 2005? Why was Controlled Demolition Inc doing “work” at a bridge in Minneapolis 3 days before it collapsed in Aug 2007? Hey Bush,,,,,get out your immunity pen FAST!!!!!
May 29th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Domestic Surveillance Programs are needed to protect our FREEDOM.
May 29th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Spot on hope, spot on. I agree to, because for him to be fighting tooth and nail tells me there is alot more to this story than what is in the paper. Heck you never know, if immunity isn’t given and these telecoms go to court Bush may be afraid that they will start squawking about what they did and WHO they targeted. And that may be the most important. If it came out that he was looking at every politician that wasn’t or was aligned with him to find dirt on them, he may be the first ex-president that could go to jail. Because nobody (not even his fellow Republicans) would be in his corner. That may be what he is afraid of, telecoms spilling the beans in disclosure during the many lawsuits to come and the public finding out that Pelosi and others on both sides of the isle where being tapped and probed. There would be no way to spin that, no way.
May 29th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
3 report to your nearest fema camp dont delay go today
May 29th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Just if I had billions for lobbists, I could be a legal criminal too!!!!
May 29th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
My experience with my provider, Verizon, just now was really rich. Their premium tech support
is a wonderful service, worth the cost, they’re located in Canada…their government is spying on them as well. Three people I spoke with are addicted to the kool-aid, I shared the screen with them, showed them several sites with this info, original articles and they argue against this information. Response “well, this is one persons opinion.” or “that article is just taking paragraphs from other sources and putting their spin on it.” The third was “that person has a grudge and just wants to badmouth us.” BTW they now have a new charge called Federal Universal Fee, we’re required to pay. If this reimburses them for lobbying, we pay them for the service, they spy on us, then charge us for their services. DISGUSTING!
May 29th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Anna drinks the same koolaid.
Despite the diabolical nature of the children of Satan’s son Cain, Tribe of Dan, I feel almost privileged to live in this day and time and know the truth. Can you imagine how many billions of people through the centuries have been aware of the prophecies yet had not all the clues or the gift of communications necessary to know who satan’s demon family are.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
I think a program like this would have been of great interest to Al Capone or the Bonanno Bros, that would have been able to better hide their stash before law enforcement arrived.
And it goes without saying that any high class criminal of today, such as the Bush cabal, would want to know if any high officials or courts are exchanging information that could lead to an official indightment against them.
That is, they want to know “who knows,” especially with issues like treason, torture, false flag planning like with another 9/11, etc., anything that could lead to their actual persecution of war crimes, crimes against humanity, genocide, war profiteering and their plans to overthrow our Constitution & Bill Of Rights.
They want to know who knows and what they might be doing about it to stop it!!!
May 29th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
If for example the adminstration is planning a bioweapons attack to justify Marshall Law, they want to know where the leaks are so the plumbers can arrive early.
If for example they are planning a false flag nuclear strike to justify Marshall Law, they want to make sure there are no leaks that might blow their cover, again so the plumbers can arrive early and prevent the story from leaking out and who done it.
And lastly, they want to know if their current or former “pool boys” are planning a political smear campaign with facts they might be able to prove.
That is, they want a comprehensive “risk report” because they are at great risk of being sent to prison for life, or being executed for horrendous crimes like executing Operation 9/11 and killing thousands of US citizens to justify the wars in the middle east, that are actuallly Nepot, mercinary profiteering wars that serve their cabal of elite criminal minds.
This is their dammage control network, for monitoring how clean their illegal operations are going and flying under the radar. Call it low altitude political radar for corrupt leaders.
They all belong in jail!!!
May 29th, 2008 at 11:18 pm
AnnaBot at 3, what FREEDOM?
May 29th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Our leaders are pure scum of the earth.
Now if Nostradamis predicted that the anti-christ raised up in the east and wore a “blue turbin”, there is a very high probability that the CIA would plant such a character for the world to see, to justify a war of aggression.
Think America, at how good a job they have done to impersonate biblical prophesy, as they win favor with mainstream christians that in turn politically support the agenda, as if it were the word of God.
This is think tank at it’s best, using all the angles of brainwashing and brinkmanship, to what a collective of uninformed idiots will accept and believe, as if they were winning an election to overthrow this country and depended on every vote from all the different devides, where the christians are an important wedge slice of the total count that goes along.
Yeah man, lets just sit back and wait for Jesus, cause he’s comming next week to rapture all the good people that refuse to make a stand and that render unto Caesar & the New World Order.
Global warming in the midst of 3 consecutive sun spot cycles!!! Who do these jerks think they are kidding as they attempt to play God with astrology and astronomy. These are political criminals that would sell their own grandmother to get 5 minutes of mainstream TV time and the asteroids will be comming next, so get ready for the Homeland Asteroid Bill, guaranteed to cost more than your arm & leg, because their spy program has indicated that aliens are directing the asteroids directly at planet earth and every school yard will go up in flames when it hits. Now you don’t want you kids to catch on fire do you, so you had better agree or you must be a hater all children.
I hope they all rot in hell.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
NEWS FLASH
The neocons have determined through wire tapping, that all US citizens are Taliban and are fast becoming a threat to national security. They hope that by keeping the borders wide open that the growing immigrant population will help to balance radical voting and prevent a Taliban revolt by US citizens.
By devaluating the American dollar by 50% over the past 5 years, they hope to cripple the economics of all US citizens that are now Taliban, making it economically impossible for them to rise up and challenge the Bush administration.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
#13 Blacksmith…. I thought the Taliban was funded by the US. Aren’t we as tax payers then funding ourselves if indeed we are the group they claim we are?
May 29th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
NEWS FLASH
The Neocons have determined that it is essential to take away all civil rights in America, to preserve freedom and the American way.
If we don’t accept this, there will be a major explosion somewhere, to prove their point.
May 29th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
#15 Blacksmith…. If there is a major explosion somewhere we will know who did it.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:05 am
Tonka I know we agree on many things . And Blacksmith you seem to have a full view of what is going on. It’s good to discuss with people who can actually think instead of react .
May 30th, 2008 at 12:09 am
#17 David…. We think, then we react. It’s like chess. But ultimately, this game we win. Peace.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Tonka, post # 14
Well, heck yes.
Back in 1993, we hired Emad Salem an Egyptian spy to inflitrate a group of terrorist bombers that were planning to blow up the WTC. If you will recall, the van of explosives went off, but the tower did not collapse.
According to Supreme Court documents, Emad was given detonators and fuses along with intructions on how to make an amonium nitrate bomb by the CIA, so he could easily gain acceptance with the bombers. He became a much respected leader and teacher as he gained recruits for this task of blowing up the WTC tower. Three days before the event, his superiors at the CIA took him off the case, but Emad was not stupid and used a hidden video camera to record meetings with his CIA superiors. He asked, “what about the explosives, detonators and fuses he was supposed to retrieve as a part of his mission”? He was told by his CIA superiors not to worry about it, he was officially off the case and others would take care of retrieving the explosives. After the explosion went off they tried to bust him for being a terrorist king pin and the FBI arrested him and charged him for the crime. Fortunately he made enough copies of the video and other videos with his superiors that the Supreme Court had to let him go, otherwise he would have ended up like Timothy MCVeigh and the Oklahoma bombing.
So to answer your question, “don’t we fund them” the answer is YES, we are them and they are us and they simply change hats, black to white, or white cowboy hat when in US court and turbin when working in the middle east. Otherwise they are the same klan and this is what the Supreme Court embarassingly found out in the case of Emad Salem. Enough of this news leaked out into mainstream news papers for anyone with a functioning brain to figure out and much still remains classified as to further details that would totally incriminate the CIA for the 93 bombing of the WTC. That is they(our CIA) planned, recruited, supplied explosives and provided a stoolie ring leader, along with a complete “how to do it manual.” This resulted in a 10 fold increase in funding to fight terrorism.
This is ancient history that most Americans know little if anything about, but I believe it was covered real well in the Washington Post and Alex Jones covered it really well with a copy of the actual news paper article along with the video Emad Salem had recorded in the documantary, The Road to Tyranny.
The truth may be very painful, but the truth will set you free and we have a long way to go with educating the average American that refuses to watch AJ documentaries. All of these facts can be proved one by one, but only Alex has made such a “compelation” that shines the light of truth on the evolution of how we got to where we are today.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:24 am
#3:TROLL!!!#10: It’s Martial not marshall!!! I apologize for the correction but, being a vet can’t help it!!! BTW the NSA is all over this site!!! Just like Rense.com!!! Compiling a list of all of us on this and other sites…oh well, until it’s over I’ll search…what’s the frequency Kenneth???
May 30th, 2008 at 12:24 am
I have listened to mind numbing lectures from Benjamin Creme and Manly P Hall . Why , because
these are the neo-religious voices of the NWO . Those who are purely political or purely religious in
their information will never see what is coming. Trust me the biggest lie will use the UFO mindset. I
am not putting down those looking for UFO’s . I am saying the NWO will use this as a powerful way
to deceive all people. These two men are preparing their followers for a messiah or prophet who
they say are from another world . This person will appear in a time of great crisis and falsely resolve
the critical wars and starvation. Mainly by our deaths. Beware.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:31 am
#12: Plant is the operative term!!! #19: Try to get reprints of the newspapers on the days that was put out and you’ll find it not available!!! I tried…but maybe I missed something. I used the 911 Road to Tyranny doc. as guide!
May 30th, 2008 at 12:32 am
#19 Blacksmith…. I was two blocks away that day in 1993 when the explosion went off at WTC in New York City. I know the FBI cooked the bomb and that it was yet another false flag attempt. I’m with you brother. I was just being sarcastic my friend. Peace.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:36 am
#21 David…. Your assessment sounds exactly as the Bible prophesies the anti-christ.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:43 am
it is Tonka . But these are their words. It is hard to desrcribe how evil these men are ( 1 dead )
They speak so calmly and peacefully, unless you really listen . Then you hear the absolute hatred
for good in their voices.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:46 am
One of the biggest ploys of political power freaks, is to impersonate God and biblical prophesy. This political anesthesia allows for the total appathy we are seeing today by so many people, that sigh and say, “the bible tells of this,” as they sit back and wait to be raptured.
Lets be totally candid and I don’t usually use the “F” word.
But leaders that will stoop to these levels of deception, would “F” your kids to death for a buck. Think about it, they are “F-ing” the patriotic and christian guts of America with this crap and it’s MORE THAN complictly UNCONSCIONABLE. We are dealing with the ugliest this earth has ever been witness to.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:47 am
#25 David…. I know my friend. They are evil with the conscience of Lucifer. But their light is not our Light. We see, they lie. We speak truth, they hide. We rise, they fall. No Fear!
May 30th, 2008 at 12:52 am
#26 Blacksmith…. The word “rapture” is not in the Bible. Secondly, the “resurrection” or “harvest” will occur on the last day of tribulation, not the first. So in that respect you’re right, many are and will be deceived. We must remain aware to the Truth, and spread the Truth to all who will listen.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Soooooooooo, that’s the big reason of sales Ad’s for Verizon’s FiOS service with faster everything, its a faster way for them to retrieve info on anyone and being able to link to ur comp. or laptop since its “from the home to the premise, scary isn’t it!!! not to exclude comcast. “Sign up for the triple play and u save!! It’s only $100 to have all of ur services illegally tapped!!!”.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:58 am
Blacksmith , you have also hit a very important point . The RAPTURE (pre-tribilation) is not in the
Bible. There is a HARVEST of the saints in the 14th chapter of Revelation . Tie the great lie,which looks like the UFO mindset, with lack of a pre-tribulation rapture , and you will get the great falling away , the Bible speaks of.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:00 am
AMAZING ! Tonka . I had to laugh
May 30th, 2008 at 1:01 am
#30 David….
“falling away…” – II Thessalonians 2:3
May 30th, 2008 at 1:02 am
#31 David…. We’re on the same path my friend. Truth is truth is truth. 2+2=4!
May 30th, 2008 at 1:06 am
No doubt, wouldn’t it be great if people actually read the Bible and not just regurgitate things they
have been told . I would guess you aren’t exactly popular at most church’s either.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:08 am
Genesis 6 and Revelation 14 the most misquoted and misunderstood chapters in the Bible.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:10 am
it would be great if nobody read the bible.
We could use them to stoke our steam engine’s after their’s nobody left who can afford gas.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:14 am
#34 David…. I’m an ordained Christian Pastor of non-denomination, amongst other things.
“Is Christ divided?…” – I Corinthians 1:13
To answer your question – No. Whenever I go to a “church” I challenge the speaker to prove what they are saying with scripture. Needless to say, many get uneasy. Nor can they prove it.
My Church is the Body of Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Head of the Church. And through our faith in Him by His grace are we saved. If only more knew the truth.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:17 am
#35 David…. I would put those two chapters right up there in the top ten for mis-interpretation. Also, Genesis 1-5, and Revelation 19-20.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:18 am
#20 ‘what’s the frequency, Kenneth’ HAHAHAHAH
Matthew 24:9 -22
May 30th, 2008 at 1:18 am
I couldn’t be more pleased to hear that I’m in Tulsa , Ok and it is flooded with prosperity teaching
and totally immersed in pre-trib belief . I have faced many angry faces when I even try to talk about
Revelation 14 and Genesis 6.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:20 am
oops for the Biblically challenged ‘what’s the frequency, Kenneth’ is not found in the book of Matthew.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:22 am
#35 David…. Also, in regards to Genesis 6, the “sons of God” are clearly identified in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1. But will people read or research? Have they enmass concerning 911? It is sad.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:23 am
#40 david is the attached true of your area?
http://www.geocities.com/ron_garon/pg1.75.htm
May 30th, 2008 at 1:25 am
Well, it is true that Thessalonians, Chapter 2:11 specifically mentions the Bush administration and his executive orders.
It says, ” the exalted George & Secret Orders.”
May 30th, 2008 at 1:28 am
#44 Blacksmith….
“And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:”
- II Thessalonians 2:11
May 30th, 2008 at 1:29 am
To the girl with a very long name (just kidding) All the places are accurate but, I have to say the
guillotines are news to me. But there was a UP story years ago that France had 3000 guillotines stored.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:32 am
#46 David…. It’s true about the guillotines. There are many here in the US as well. There was talk about 7 years ago of bringing beheading back as a form of capital punishment. Lovely.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:36 am
also (the girl who listens) there are many reports that Okla city has two large detention camps.
One at Tinker air force base and in a near by town (El Reno) . The El Reno camp labeled as a water treatment area has an incinerator.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:38 am
#46 they came through Long Beach also. Our Lady of Sorrows in Tulsa was mentioned.
#44 don’t understand the ties between secret society and scripture.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:39 am
#48 David…. Many of the military base closures in the 90’s were to convert them into “camps”.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:40 am
And in Revelations it states, “Angels in white robes shall pour vials of plagues on all of mankind.”
I think they are talking about bio-weapons research at Fort Detrick and the researchers in white lab coats holding vials of Anthrax, as the entire Whitehouse staff was on anti-anthrax meds big time, long before it showed up in our postal system.
And according the the Judicial Watch, the Capitol Hill watch dog agency, this was only revealed after the Supreme Court had ordered their medical records for prescription medications three(3) times, due to a leak they were on powerful anti-anthrax meds before the actual attacks. That and the CDC and UCLA confirmed the Anthrax was a genome finger print match with our Fort Detrick bio-weapons stockpile which is an exclusive source for the highly weaponised version it proved to be.
Well glory be, the bible is surely true with all it’s prophesies, right on time thanks to those weraing white lab coats and a covert black opp that specializes in impersonating prophesies to keep the holly rollers all wound up for the count down. Now that’s what I call slicing some fine biblical cheese, wouldn’t you say?
May 30th, 2008 at 1:42 am
Georgia legislature attempted to have beheading legalized as alternative to elec. chair. said it was more humane and organ’s fresher for donations
scroll down for coffins, millions, stored near fort mcpherson.
pardon me for hijacking your conversation. but you guys are educating me on the Bible and conspiracies.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:43 am
#49 TheGirl…. The secret societies use scripture to their advantage by the ignorance of the general populace who they know don’t understand the scripture. They mirror what is Truth in a cloak of lies and darkness.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:45 am
#53 thanks tonka. my years with the bible as ministers daughter were never focused on the conspiracies. i’m a newbie. and knowledge about secret sects, sacred stuff forbidden.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:46 am
#52 TheGirl…. You are exactly right about Georgia attempting to implement beheading. I was living in Florida when I was researching that development.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:46 am
Tonka , Girl who, Blacksmith , God bless you for your search of real truth. I think we will be in great need when the deceived church gets the scales knocked from their eyes. It really grieves me
to see the apathy they have.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:48 am
#54 TheGirl…. Know your enemy.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:51 am
#56 David…. Much like Saul had scales fall from his eyes and was then renamed Paul after he received the Holy Spirit.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:52 am
Tonka, post #45
I thought that’s what I said regarding ll Thesselonians 2:11
It says, “God shall send them George W Bush & NWO of strong delusions, that they should believe a lie.”
Maybe my memory is off, but I swore it said GWB & the NWO specifically, but maybe I am just reading that as an applicable interpretation of today’s times. Sorry for the misquote – minor technicality.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:54 am
Blacksmith you’re too much. see I learn from you guys.
I hope you don’t mind my joining in.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:55 am
#59 Blacksmith…. I knew what you meant my friend.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:55 am
That’s my hope Tonka . I just worry how persuasive (through fear) the enemy will be. Like I said ,
these guys speak like lambs and plan like wolves.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:57 am
duh
May 30th, 2008 at 1:58 am
#60 TheGirl…. You are always welcome dear Spirit.
#62 David…. Then we must speak like lambs and plan like God.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:09 am
Now look out everyone, a generation after Israel becomes a nation, a star shall fall from heaven and strike the earth.
The only man made stars that could hit this earth are, well man made, in the form of a nuclear missile. The heat of a nuclear bomb is about as hot as a star and is a nuclear fire just like a star or our sun.
Hmm, you don’t think – - – the angels of the NWO would drop a star on us, dooo – do you, gulp?
I know, it’s Jesus, he’s comming and I will be raptured. Whew, for a second there I was really concerned.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:10 am
The Guillotine option has been mentioned again lately in the news with regards to the recent Supreme Court case involving Lethal Injection being possibly “cruel and unusual” since there have been several cases of it taking multiple tries and more than 1/2 hour to kill a few people with the needle. While the Supreme Court did rule that lethal injection was not cruel and unusual they did recommend the states come up with some “alternate”.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:12 am
We have a new-age church here. I went 3 times with someone because of my job. In the rear of the
“church” the have the wings of Isis hanging where we would have a picture or a cross. There is a male and female minister , who pray to father , mother god (Isis and Osiris) . Everything was smiles
and handshakes until I (during their meditation) rejected their call to welcome the “new” messiah (because the minister said Jesus was dead now) . The it became leers and refusal to speak to me.
All this happened without me uttering a word to anyone. After that I prayed God would confuse and
lay condemnation on their hearts. I really felt like I had to stop going because it was going to get bad
and I didn’t want to anger the person I was there with. I think I learned a lot about their deception .Amazing how many people don’t see the connection between new-age and the NWO.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:22 am
#65 Blacksmith…. The “star” is Wormwood. Wormwood is Satan as he comes crashing to earth with all his wrath (Revelation 8:11)
#66 PNW…. You are exactly right.
#67 David…. They are blinded my friend.
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
“And they shall turn away from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” – II Timothy 4:3-4
May 30th, 2008 at 2:23 am
PNW, post #66
But if they start guillotining the millions of US citizens that oppose the NWO, how will they avoid a drop in the population consensus if it’s ever investigated?
Do you think undocumented illegals would suddenly be granted immunity & citizenship to keep the population consensus numbers from revealing a mass killing? With 20 to 30 million undocumented illegals in this country, they could draw off that resource to keep their books in order and prevent the UN from making any accusations. That and it would solve the wage problem in America too boot, something the Neocons would really love, two birds with one stone, aey.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:26 am
blacksmith that star could represent an israeli nuke, huh? they’ve dreamt up a scary story involving a wayward meteor headed for earth. and those missing nukes of our apparently planted in 22 cities. they would drop it. they, being repulsive, dark underground critters have those bunkers readied to live in for more than three years. one under the nazi airport in denver.
moon-eyed americans sleep through the war. find comfort in use of ‘humane’ methods used in snuff missions. bet they film them. Notice how 33rd degree parallel crosses every state in the U.S. that legalized capital punishment.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:27 am
the sad thing was on their sign out front it said it was a church “of” Christianity . Even their hymnal
had the same songs , but they were altered. No mention of anything that related to a need for God’s
forgiveness , or our sin nature.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:28 am
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,…”
- Revelation 20:4
May 30th, 2008 at 2:31 am
blacksmith; apparently those trains have doors each slides up a guillotine in place to off us on the way to their destination. do you know every time before now that I’ve mentioned guillotines my comment was – awaiting moderation?
May 30th, 2008 at 2:33 am
Amen Tonka , he that hath an ear , let him hear. Going to bed, old guys need sleep.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:33 am
craziest thing – i’m more concerned about having enough food than losing my head. Sophie Scholle is my hero.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:43 am
#70 TheGirl…. The 33rd degree parallel goes right through the Valley of Meggido (Armageddon) in Israel, just north of Babylon, and right through Kashmir into China. It is the old Marco Polo trade route. A 200,000,000 man army will invade from the east (Revelation 9:16). Why is the US really over there? Hmmm.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:45 am
#74 David…. Good night, sir. Peace and God bless in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. No Fear!
May 30th, 2008 at 2:52 am
To all a good night and keep up the good fight. Peace and God bless you all. No Fear!
May 30th, 2008 at 2:54 am
TheGirl – - – , post #73
The, “your coments are awaiting moderation” is not showing up on this end of the forum. No one else sees it but you.
I’ve gotten them myself.
There have also been times when I participated in lengthy forums, to find out they were exlusive(isolated) fake forums where the posts never showed up after I refreshed my browser. When it happens a chunk of the forum vanishes and post #####’s are missing where you thought you were conversing with others that also never existed. It’s probably a loose wire that goes off to some other Intel gathering zone run by bots and you can’t tell until you refresh.
May 30th, 2008 at 3:04 am
75 im more concerned aboiut becoming a slave to nwo elitist we all have our priorities
May 30th, 2008 at 3:11 am
#69 blacksmith They will slowly introduce the guillotine option a few states at a time as an alternate to lethal injection just to get the sheeple used to the idea. However once the crash comes (or the nuclear war with Russia after the US attacks Iran) and the NWO takes “official” power then the mass guillotine murder will start.
It is my contention for many reasons that the USA is “the harlot of Babylon” in Revelation and that it will be destroyed in a nuclear war (probably this summer) and that the “FEMA Camps” are to collect us people who live in the boonies into as slave labor to build weapons for the “World Army”. You will be given a choice (as Satanism requires you to volunteer your soul) to work for the NWO and participate in the system (i.e. take the chip) or off with your head.
The masters really don’t want to be hassled with too many “patriots” or other morons who think they are “free”. They have drained about every penny they can out of the US (as well as setup the world through our bogus money system) and played us like a fiddle over the last 100 years to get us to setup military bases all over the world and suck the 3rd world into the International Banking system. We have accomplished all of their goals for them and now they are done with us.
Of course as usual they have setup multiple options to destroy America either through economic meltdown over the next year or so or with a nice quick nuclear war…either way we are screwed really.
May 30th, 2008 at 3:20 am
#81 PNW…. We win in the end. Keep the faith my friend. I’m out. Peace and God bless. No Fear!
May 30th, 2008 at 6:33 am
#89 blacksmith thanks for the heads up. where will we go next….hmmm.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:08 am
#69 Blacksmith: about the consensus, what’s the possibility they PLAN who they off, kill them, and give id of the dead to illegals. That way….no investigation. But does UN CARE????? They aren’t exactly sensitive to anyone.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Palm pressing. Conflicts of interest. Mutual profiteering. Private interests. Control and survelliance grids. Spy and tattle tale networks. Military and law enforcement obeying orders without question, or the right to, controlled entirely by the rich elites. Mass media demoralization. Whoremongering. The oppression of the poor and subjugation of the middle classes. Greed. Murder. Lies.
Basically all the elements of a corrupt society.
May 30th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Paranoid fantasies of Satanists and irrelevant biblical prophecies aside, if the federal government refuses to hold these people responsible for violating the law, we should take it upon ourselves to do so. We cannot allow criminals to escape punishment. Their guilt is self-evident, they would not be seeking immunity if they hadn’t done anything wrong, so we have an obligation to see that justice is served. Again, if our government won’t do it, it is our responsibility, and if we fail or choose not to because we are afraid of the consequences, it is on our shoulders. We have to stop constantly pointing fingers and start taking action to put an end to the evil and iniquity that this government has made its overarching policy.
May 30th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Did anyone here think they WEREN’T in cahoots with the Bush Administration? Has anyone read the list of WHO attends the Bilderberger meetings? The media is a serious issue we face today.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Well, Wow. So now the comments are gone from the right side of the screen. Things keep getting funny like this, can’t say pe you know what, comments gone, people trying to truth being blocked. This keeps up, I’m gone for good. And now I’m posting too fast, even though last post was over 5 minutes ago.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
#88 barbar… I’m having the same problem.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
A few of Alex,s past guests and interviews….Charlie and Martin Sheen…Jesuits…Hutton Gibson(Mel,s father)…Jesuit….Pat Buchanan…Jesuit and Knights of Malta Freemason…Are we really to believe that Trillionaire David de Rothschild would call into Alexs radio show to get yelled at for an hour ??…lol, its ridiculous and was most likely staged….please do your homework folks, Alex Jones might be just another Gatekeeper for the Vatican and NWO agenda….heres a link to get you started on the research…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDUMp0OniVI
May 30th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Together we stand with Alex against the N.W.O… He has never let us down!!!
COME ON PEOPLE… LETS GET HIM THE BIGGEST MEGAPHONE WE CAN… And I am calling all you celebrities and name people out there… You might have gagging orders BUT YOU CAN STILL PUT MONEY ALEX’S WAY… And make up for your silence… Show us you care people… AND WE WILL FIGHT ‘TIL HELL FREEZES OVER!!!!!!!
It ain’t about money, it’s about the very survival of Humanity!!!
Safety is relative, and little do you know, YOU DON’T HAVE ANY!!!!!!!
UNLESS YOU STAND UP…
AND DON’T THINK POLITICS AND CORPORATE CELEBRITIES CAN SAVE YOU… ALEX IS INDEPENDENT… no strings attached… SO ARE YOU…
Pull it out the bag people… You have the power… We have the reason…
And I know the time is now very late…
ALEX JONES… MEGAPHONE… ALEX JONES… MEGAPHONE… MONEY BOMB 31st MAY 2008
Check it out…
ALEX… Got ‘em on the Run From The Bullhorn… Bilderbergers!!!
Check The Video!!!!!!!
I Love The “MoneyBomb” Song… By L.A. Cody
It Really Sums It Up…
The Corporations, The Deceit, The Hegelian Dialectic…
The Games That All Corporations Play!!!!!!
I Hope Their Independent Label Takes Off, When They Release Their Material…
And That Your “MoneyBomb” Is A Great Success!!!!!!
You All Deserve That At Least… You And All The Truth Seekers…
Let’s Work Together… GOD BLESS LIBERTY
Ain’t That The Story…
PROGRAMMED FROM THE START
AN’ I’M SICK OF CHEWIN’ ON A BOOK OF RULES YEAH
SICK OF CHEWIN’ ON A BOOK OF RULES
PROGRAMMED FROM THE VERY START
YOU KNOW I CRIED LIKE A BABY IN MY CELL AT NIGHT
YOU KNOW I JUST WANNA PUT IT ALL RIGHT
PUT IT ALL RIGHT
I’M TRYNA UNDERSTAND YEAH
YOU’RE TRYNA UNDERSTAND
PROGRAMMED FROM THE VERY START
PROGRAMMED FROM THE VERY START
Copyright ©2000/2008 Jonnie Malvados and L.A. Cody
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e05gDevURe8
May 30th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
A few of Alex,s past guests and interviews….Charlie and Martin Sheen…Jesuits…Hutton Gibson(Mel,s father)…Jesuit….Pat Buchanan…Jesuit and Knights of Malta Freemason…Are we really to believe that Trillionaire David de Rothschild would call into Alexs radio show to get yelled at for an hour ??…lol, its ridiculous and was most likely staged….please do your homework folks, Alex Jones might be just another Gatekeeper for the Vatican and NWO agenda….heres a link to get you started on the research…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDUMp0OniVI
May 30th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
#93 – Generalize much? You may have been hoodwinked, you may have been naive, but I think most of us exercise logic and reason and know better than to accept anything Mr. Jones or anyone else for that matter says at face value. Don’t lump the rest of us in to your individual failings. I would bet that if you were so easily compromised once, that you probably would be again, and I shudder to think what kind of nutjob you’ve attached yourself to this time.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
alex fooled us all i watched your video it was just i pissed off radio person weres the evidence matter fact i see these attacks aginst alex as a smear campaghn to discredit him u want me tobeileve alex jones is phony show me proof the more one speaks and is heard the more people will try to limit that voice or midigate that voice even if alex jones insint 100 percent correct show me who is none can be right all the time thats why u verfy anything u read of interest noone should take anything at face value ive researched alot of storys and theres a big grain of truth i see that video and others in that catigory on you tube as farce its easy to smear people who speak a differnt view than your own but i have not seen a shred of evidence of a cia conection or jesuit connection its phone if he was involed with either show me concrete proof if he was coneccted there would proof theres always a trail until u have proof stop posting lame you tube videos as your proof moron
May 30th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
more evidence to the contury if he was involed with either factions then y did u have the same right to post as alex supporters whhy wouldnt he just block your post he didnt u got your message here on the sight just like every one else if he was connected and had is own agenda then im shure your voice would have been eliminated on this sight the more populor one becomes the bigger the target gets on that person truth shines through if hes a agent for a agenda he will be shown false but if he is working for the bettering of america he will be shown as a true agent of good
May 30th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
jones sold out partiot that was a bad post how come the letter was typed on the sight y couldnt we see the real letter with out seeing his real handwriting how do we know that its true without it it coulda been just some stupid sight with a axe to grind trying to bring down a movement that is really picking up steam all u alex smearers havent shown me more than a lame story and stupid you tube video WERES the proof
May 30th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Anyone who goes off trying to make Alex Jones look bad is just making him look even better. I didn’t like Alex Jones at first but I did my reaserch and he is a great person to our society, all you NWO H0M0s need to STFU and know your place which is in heII.
May 30th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Americana, how dare you question the
practices of the Gestapo (aka, Homeland Security)!!!!