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The Lethality of Non-Lethal Weapons: Man Dies From Bean Bag Rounds
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Jannay Towne
WHO 13
June 10, 2009
WHO 13
June 10, 2009
An Urbandale man involved in a standoff with Polk County deputies Monday died Tuesday morning. After negotiation attempts failed, deputies shot 21-year-old Justin Schleuning with a bean bag gun. The rounds were meant to stun him, but wound up killing him
- A d v e r t i s e m e n t
“I don’t like the term less lethal,” says Gil Hansen, a firearms training and defensive tactics instructor at the Iowa Law Enforcement Academy. He says so-called bean bag guns can safely diffuse a situation. “They can subdue a person without deadly force and because they aren’t intended to cause death or bodily injury,” he says. But the danger is still there. Filled with birdshot and fired from a 12 gauge shotgun, the weapon still packs a punch.
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June 10th, 2009 at 11:41 am
The cops kill ya, then call it an accident. But if a cop is killed its murder. 1984.
bob b Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
I totally agree, sounds like this kid called for help and BOY! did those “NICE” Policemen help!!!
TEX Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
AGAIN GET THE ROPE——- JUST A SNAP—- IN THE NECK
deadasadoornail Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
This is fantastic. The kid was threatening to kill himself, so in an attempt to stop him from killing himself, he was killed. Brilliant move on the part of the Cop. I guess threatening to kill yourself is a capital offense now – punishable by immediate execution.
The cops can kill you all day long and never, ever get prosecuted for it. Velkomme to Amerika!
Iowa native Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
I live just south of where this happened and they just said on the news that it wasn’t a bean bag round like they first thought. They said the police officers “MIXED UP” the shotgun rounds and it was accually a lethal hard plasic shell that the police department says they have no idea how it got in the cops shotgun and the department doesn’t use those kind of rounds. Doesn’t sound like an accident to me.
Unconquered Reply:
June 11th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
“Less lethal.” Boy, talk about doublespeak. They should just call it “suicided.”
June 10th, 2009 at 11:45 am
He says he doesn’t like the term “less lethal” – one would presume he prefers the term “non-lethal” – but then admits that they can still kill you…
It’s just like the jury in the Yonkers case.
“This is not the outcome anyone had intended,” so no foul.
June 10th, 2009 at 11:54 am
It’s not deadly? Shot sb’s throat right in the middle and we’ll see if it’s not lethal weapon 5…ignore 5.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Because there are many “home invasions” being committed these days by goons who wear bullet resistant vests,I have an nice supply of armor piercing 30.06
They can keep using their beanbags
deadasadoornail Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Nice. The teflon coated slugs work good, too.
danny2 Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 9:45 am
teflon coated? what movie did you see that in? and who calls a rifles projectile a slug? not I.
danny2 Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 9:47 am
In 1982, NBC ran a special on the bullets and argued that the bullets were a threat to police. Gun control organizations in the U.S. labeled Teflon-coated bullets “cop killers” because of the supposedly increased penetration the bullets offered against ballistic vests, a staple of the American police uniform. Supporters of gun control believed that the Teflon coating was responsible for this increased penetration[1] despite the fact that the material is only an outer coating for the brass penetrator and usually peels off during its trajectory through the air.
dave Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 10:17 am
yeah actually teflon coated bullets only have slightly higher penetration maybe 2-3%, and this is because the teflon lubricates the round make it travel at a slightly higher velocity, look no one should ever kill police , the real bastards like in mansions but teflon is not a cop killer , if there are people robbing you with vests you need steel core rounds for rifles or .357 mag for pistols
June 10th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Boy, it’s a good thing they took him out. He could have killed himself!
Gary Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Yes, and now he no longer poses a danger to himself. Another day of righteous law enforcement well done. “cough”
sm Reply:
June 11th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Well ya. Suicide is a crime, we dont want anyone breaking the law. Oh wait! Isnt murder a crime too?
June 10th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
okay? He threatens to kill himself and then he gets killed by the cops.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Suicide by cops… At least he got his wish…
Ryan Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
They wont let doctors do it to people so if you want an assisted suicide just call 911.
=)
vikingscool Reply:
June 11th, 2009 at 2:54 am
I think he wants to die because he didn’t want to live. :/
dfgvcjgh Reply:
June 11th, 2009 at 2:57 am
You dirty bastard!!!
June 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
The dude , like, WANTED to die. So, like, no harm done. I mean, like geeze, uh, you know, like, WTF. Why is everyone so down on the cops. The guy was, like, making the cops feel threatened. I mean, like, how, err, what would you want to do if some loser, like, nobody suddenly made you feel, like powerless. I bet you would, like, shoot him, too. So why, like, crucify this cop for just doing what you would do. So just, like, lighten up! It’s not, like, like they will do anything to this cop. He was just, like, following orders, you know.
Like, wow! That was really HARD to type out. I just got back from my doctor with a new, like, prescription. He, like, called them “Moron-o-matic”, I, like, think….
Gary Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Because, like, wow man, it’s not, like the job of the police to, like assist people in, like killing themselves, you know, dude?
Jacob Jingleheimerschmitz Reply:
June 11th, 2009 at 7:18 am
BWhahaahhaaa…
like totally…
sm Reply:
June 11th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Ok first i think i just got dumber by reading this and secondly, didnt you feel dumb writing this?
angelfire Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
funny, now stop it.
June 10th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Kill a few people your a Murderer, Kill a Million and your a Dictator/War Hero
Christian Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Or an abortion doctor
Zack Reply:
June 11th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Ehhh……. What?
June 10th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
The guy should have just phoned the cops and said
“Here I am, come and kill me!”
And of course they will gladly oblige.
Not On My Watch Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
Man he should have had himself a blast.You know? Just start reciting his constitutional rights and when they used these “Less that Lethal Weapons.” and killed him he would be another dead protester.Any NON LEO witnesses? Remember how the force likes to lie and cover thier asses.Oscar Grant? That 72 yearold Scarey Great Grandmother who was such a powerhouse the cop threw her to the pavement and tasered her? The cop on the subway in Chicago who said he was surrounded and struggling when he shot that kid in the face point blank………..Don’t forget all those deadly Naked Men…….. The ones they keep tasering to death.So I refuse to take the Media and Police Depts. Version of Events as Concrete solid “FACT”. Just ask Ian Thomilson’s (SP?) relatives about the “FACTS” that Police and Media Present to the public.
June 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
another death at the hands of the police
rest in peace
check this out
Police: 2 people shot inside Holocaust Museum
WASHINGTON – A gunman exchanged fire with security guards inside the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum on Wednesday. One security guard and the gunman were taken to a hospital.
U.S. Park Police Sgt. David Schlosser said a gunman walked into the museum with what he described as “long gun” and exchanged fire with security guards. The extent of the injuries weren’t immediately known.
read more.v.v.v.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....m_shooting
PrivateSi Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Apparently a veteran in his 80s labeled as a ‘well known white supremicist’ who also attacked the Fed. Res. building a few decades back…This is plays into the fascists hands…
If the suicidal victim was about to shoot himself (or the cops) then fair-play to the copper who was lead to believe he had a ‘non-lethal’ weapon. More likely the cops got bored and stormed the car and fired a couple of rounds at close range into vital organs…we’ll see…
June 10th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
I remember people used to go to jail for manslaughter for accidentally killing someone.
June 10th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
You still do… as long as you’re not a cop!
Truth Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Cops are above the law unless there is a great public out cry.
June 10th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
1.80 in dimes packs a punch too. Never heard of the bean bags though.
June 10th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
12-gauge Birdshot, fired from close enough, WILL kill, even if it’s been wrapped in cloth, as these “bean bags” are. If the birdshot rips through the cloth, the danger of lethal results is even greater. Ordinary 12-gauge birdshot rounds can penetrate sheetrock walls with ease.
iowaboy Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
when i trained in dept of corrections i was taught that these rounds had to be skipped off the ground in front of the subject and not a direct hit, that could cause death.
June 10th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Just what exactly are the cops supposed to do in this situation?????????
Ask the cop on shift that responded, and he most likely would have rather been somewhere else instead of dealing with some suicidal fuck-wit.
If you are going to kill yourself, why call the cops?
Truth Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
He was most likely asking for help you non compassionate twit.
angelfire Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Oh Brad, this is Angelina here, listen, the guy called because he was lonely and wanted someone to talk to. So he called the cops thinking they’d come out, talk him down, and then he’d have some company.
It was a dark and stormy day and everything started out ok. Plan was on course ’til the cops showed up with real bullets instead of those bean bag doohickies. Damn, I hate when that happens.
Latest news is the cops screwed up, those were real bullets, no joke. Someone’s getting a promotion and a raise for this one. Gotta love ‘em Brad.
June 10th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Someday soon those who fight back and kill these punk cops will be called real patiots….Do cops ever get charged with murder? It is always justified….America and this phoney hero worship has given rise to the very Thugs that will soon be kicking down our doors…..I shit on the thin blue line……
June 10th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
The question is. did he exit the vehicle, without the weapon, and was then killed? or did he still have the gun in hand. It makes a difference. Imagine changing your mind.. leaving the gun on the seat… and then.. you get killed anyways… Its really sad if thats the case.
June 10th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
The poor guy was suicidal – PROBABLY ON “ANTI”-DEPRESSANTS – and the police are there to SAVE LIVES – NOT KILL PEOPLE – Ah, but this is the POST-9/11 world. Police are not “Peace Officers” they are “LAW ENFORCEMENT”.
This kind of shit reminds of me of Judge Dredd! JUDGE – JURY AND EXECUTIONER ALL IN ONE!
Poor Justin, I’ve been depressed too! I’ve lived in my car for 6 weeks! I’ve been there! I’ve lived it! I just didnt have the gall to make that final leap to override my instincts and self-terminate.
Looks like this Justin didnt have what it takes inside to kill himself – so he called the police for help – he needed help. He needed love, compassion and understanding… but instead he gets a cloth-wrapped 12-gauge birdshot round to the chest and KILLED HIM!
MY FATHER called the police one time when I was very depressed, angry and screaming – I hung up the phone on him and didnt answer. That miserable bastard called the police instead of being a FATHER and coming over to my house!! What happened?! The police showed up with GUNS and guns and guns and guns! As I stood outside my house and talked with them for 10 minutes, telling them I AM depressed but instead of my father being a father, he called the cops to do the father job for him – they were STILL showing up with gun-case after gun case…
The police are NOT there to help in situations like this – THEY ARE THERE TO ESCALATE THE SITUATION TO THE POINT OF DEATH!!!
THAT IS THE TRUTH AND THAT IS MY EXPERIENCE!!
June 10th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
WTF? i suppose all of you morons will sit at home being e-rangers and think the cops are bad, question that comes to mind is who the F*&K do you call when some freak is pointing a gun at you? the barbie hippie wimps that are so pasifist they can’t help but be run over by anyone who want what they have?
get a life and stop whinning! better yet go with the cops sometime and see just what kind of people they get to HELP everyday…….. do a ridealong and see if you like being treated like s*&t or maybe have some speeder pull a gun on you…..
walk in their shoes for a few miles and you won’t be so fast to judge…………………
mortal man Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
you ask: “who the F*&K do you call when some freak is pointing a gun at you?”
i call mr 12 gauge buckshot, my wife calls ms. .38.
fuck the cops. i protect my own, and i live in los angeles.
dont u know the police are militarizing (not to mention overpaid)? they got kevlar, M4s, 9mm, new armored Dodge crusiers. yea, all that is necessary against those “maybe potential terrorists” american civilians. i live in the ghetto, i dont need to “walk in their shoes for a few miles” to know how much of a power hungry high on their own authroity dickhead asshole they are.
dontu know anything?
angelfire Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Sid, suck an egg you cop loving sweetheart. Oh, those poor cops, so overpaid and under appreciated. Oh, we feel so sorry for them.
They are the enemy dude. I’ll take my chances with the drug dealers and the thieves before I would a murdering physco pig wife beating child molesting cop working for the gov. Take a good look at that Peterson freak who’s in jail for killing his 2nd and 3rd wife. What a typical freaking cop he is, and all his murders were covered up by his buddies on the force or they’d have caught him sooner dude. They lie for each other, hell, probably rape each other kids, have you ever known anyone who had a cop for a father that WASNT abused? They seek out these jobs because they know they get good toys and they get to “physcho play” for real. Think about it.
June 10th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
I was just told that this kid I know who is 18 and was having a birthday party at his parents house without the parents home. Then a cop came and tried to force his way into the house without a warrant. So the kid, who is a very big guy, ended up beating the cop up to keep him out. So then 3 other cops finally came and took him away and now he’s waiting to be tried on charges that would put him in jail for 20 years. And on the way to the station that left him in the backseat of course without any straps and they took a couple hard turns and gave this kid a concussion. This was within the same week as this story. Not only that but there was another story of two officers who were allowed to resign instead of being fired for an obvious case of excessive force the same week in Des Moines.
Whats going on with Des Moines, Iowa? Little nowhere Iowa!
mortal man Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
good examples of common police attitudes and practice.
June 10th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Our Police here in Des Moines are really racist and they just plain suck!! Plus it wasn’t a bean bag round, it was a plastic projectile that they said got mixed in with the non-leathal bags. Yeah right.
angelfire Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
yeah, like they couldn’t tell the difference.
June 10th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
http://www.desmoinesregister.c.....S/90610048
June 10th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
The term “non-lethal” obviously pertains to the person using the weapon, not the “victim”.
June 10th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
the term “less than lethal” is a sugar coated phrase used for weapons that have a less than ~30% mortality rate.
Rich Reply:
June 10th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
A 22 rifle is “less than lethal”
June 10th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Alex IS a pussy trying to make every story look bad the dude wanted to kill himself so he called the police so that they would kill him end of the story get a life you trolls move along nothing to see matter of fact go back to work /////////////
Ev0 Reply:
June 11th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
you are the pussy troll
June 10th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Also in the news, cops taser and repeatedly shoot a chihuahua, leave blood and “bullets” (shell casings) on the family’s porch with a note asking them to call the police department. Here’s the article…
http://www.wcpo.com/news/local.....DkUzA.cspx
JonVon Reply:
June 11th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
5 more people who will never trust “law” enforcement. Keep up the good work koppers.
Police also say the family’s dog was not licensed and did not have its required rabies shots or other vaccinations. They’ve cited the dog’s owner for one count of failure to register the dog, in addition to two counts “relating to his allowing the dog to run at large.”
Your family pet gets murdered in cold blood and you get to pay some fines!!!
It’s the end of the world as we knew it and I don’t feel fine.
June 10th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
If he wants death then let him have it.
June 11th, 2009 at 12:43 am
Point blank to the eyeball, oh he’s dead. But it says non-lethal???
Just like a 20 stone hog bouncing their knee on your back in the middle of your spine won’t do you damage because it’s used to keep the suspect still while handcuffs are added.
June 11th, 2009 at 7:22 am
What happened to the good ole days when Cops were known as Police and they were Crime Fighters not Law Enforcers? Bring the classics back!
June 11th, 2009 at 8:34 am
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June 11th, 2009 at 8:49 am
It turns out that it was a live round that killed him:
http://www.kcci.com/news/19716457/detail.html
June 11th, 2009 at 10:18 am
After several hours of negotiations, the victim agreed to exit the car without his gun. Upon exiting the car unarmed they shot him THREE TIMES. One of the three rounds was NOT a less than lethal round. One less gun owner in the world. Satan laughing spreads his wings.
http://www.kcci.com/news/19716457/detail.html
June 11th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Anything less than 10ft away has a real good chance of killing someone. There’s alot more to this story than what was posted, you can bet your ass on that.
June 11th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Doctors see suicidal patients all the time in the ER and they don’t use this as an excuse to kill them. Doctors see nasty combative patients all the time in the ER and don’t use this as an excuse to TAZER them. Cops are Jack Booted Thugs. Cops are the STANDING ARMY our beloved Founding Fathers warned us against. Even apart from the military coming in and acting like Cops, there is a jack boot standing army of Cops around. Most of what Cops do is unlawful. Those of you who think Cops do mostly law, don’t have a clue about the Constitution and Common Law.
dno7956 Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 9:39 am
We don’t live under a common law system. The private law system has been in place since the end of the War Between The States. Investigate this to return to the original concepts of the U.S. Constitution.
June 11th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
a cry for help? blame the cops?
blame the family for not paying attention….
why is this always someone elses problem?
blame the lame bastard the wanted to kill himself.
at least he got what he wanted… no harm no foul!
Heather Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
If he called for help it means some part of him did not want to die. There are lots of things that can drive someone to that. Besides it was a live round that killed him.. it doesnt look like an accident.
June 11th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
anther good example of suicide by cop
June 11th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Talk about state assisted suicide.
June 12th, 2009 at 2:55 am
He died because he was unable, or the rest of you are unable. Either way such as life.
June 12th, 2009 at 3:40 am
The fact is:
1. Slaves are not allowed to commit suicide because it is an afront to:
A. commerce (AKA Mammon) and
B. the church (AKA Mammon) and
C. the taxman (AKA Mammon) and
D. the slavers that rule us (AKA Mammon), thus –
2. The penalty for attempting, or contemplating, suicide is DEATH – and
3. Don’t you forget it.
June 12th, 2009 at 4:17 am
kk- I gotta say I am on the side of the Police here…. I hate the N.W.O. and I also think alot of Police are Thugs (and many are hero’s too) and I know that many of these guys abuse their Power, Power Trip, and get away with Murder.
I give credit where credit is due, do not view the Police as the “enemy” and think its the Laws that suck and not (necessarily) the people enforcing them- They are more often than not misinformed like most of us before we “woke up”.
From what I read, had I been in the cops position or if it had been my Father in that cops position and some suicidal guy with a gun jumped out of his car- I would have been scared shiutless and worrying more about my life than the suicidal guy (sorry but its true) and woulda shot his ass with a beanbag gun or whatever to make sure I come home to my family.
danny2 Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 9:53 am
im going to have to agree with you. most police officers are out trying to do a job, generally they arent out to get sick on people, although it does happen, but if all cops were jackasses we would all know pretty quickly as we would all be getting harassed daily. I come into contact with police all the time and i never seem to have any problem. Then again I’m not risking the life of myself or others.
Heather Reply:
June 12th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Yes but it was a LIVE ROUND that killed him
June 12th, 2009 at 9:13 am
bottom line is there are way too many retards in law enforcement. High school degree and four months training is all you need. its set up for every meathead who is dumb as sh!t. and most cops who join are too pu$$y to join the military to so this is the next best thing. big piece o sheet phaggot pecker pu$$ys.
if you are a cop SID, i hope you catch a bullet you b!tch. then as you are dying on the ground i hope you get gangbanged by thugs and they put it on youtube so i can comment on how much of a douche you are and how you deserved it. phaggot
P.S. next time anybody encounters a “cop” tell them to cover their mouth because you dont want to get swine flu
June 12th, 2009 at 9:18 am
and to every a$$hole trying to defend the “cops,” these muthas are trained in firearms, even if it was a loaded gun, shoot the kid in the phucking leg. these cops knew what they were doing, trying to inflict MAXIMUM pain, death was an accident. oh well, see you same time tomorrow hank.
:: quietly caresses .45 ::