OF INTERVIEW WITH MR. CHRIS KLICKA
AJ: Now yesterday
I read a news article, on air, part of it, seven pages
from World Net Daily it's on infowars.com we've had him on before. Home
School Legal Defense Association. And Chris Klicka is the head of this
organization I've had him on in the past, they're doing a wonderful job.
first had him on a few months ago talking about California just said,
home schooling is illegal unless you got a teaching certificate".
that's not true, but it's just color of law. They say "show up to
pre-trial hearing". There's no subpoena, no indictment, no charges.
then it's a contract law, it's the only real form of law... Commerce Law.
And they're operating out of this It's maritime jurisdiction they're
now admitting it. They just call you in and try to get you to forfeit
children, sign over the agreements, they want CPS to visit the home. They're
doing this now in Illinois, Texas, many other areas. This case though
substitute teacher who raises her daughter. She has the certificate in
Illinois, which you don't even need. CPS came and demanded into her house,
then later squad cars came. And they're talking about charges. And they
"Show up at our pre-trial hearing without charges." It's all
color of law.
The people don't know the law, even the basics, so the government is now
practicing and expanding and creating Nazi-like precedence. And again
joining us is Chris Klicka, and, uh, it's great to have you on the show
Chris, to break down this incredible development.
amazing what has happened in Illinois. You have a superintendent in
charge of three counties, who has taken it upon himself to exceed his
authority, send out squad cars to home schoolers. There's 22 of them that
have been contacted already in this three county area. One truant officer.
We got one account from one of our members, home school families. The
officer said, "I can take your kids, away if I want to" and
was scaring the
AJ: Now that's
pure terrorism, that is textbook terrorism.
CK: Oh, you're
not kidding, this is intimidation to the maximum. And another
time they insisted on entering a person's house, they looked at the
curriculum, they didn't think it was good enough, then they were demanding
this lady go to a pre-trial hearing. The squad cars would deliver personal
letters to families saying they had to come to a pre-trial hearing. And
of these families had done nothing wrong. It's simply a profiling that
because they're home schoolers, he's considering them guilty.
AJ: Well he calls it "at risk". There was a report in the Austin
weeks ago, finally they're admitting the truth. They're grabbing hundreds
of children of every month for "at-risk". You go in to have
some work done
to your diabetes, and they show up and grab your child. Your baby has
diaper rash, it's seen at day care they get paid off to call CPS, they
grab your child. And it's the same system, they call them into these courts.
They go "come to this pre-trail hearing" maybe we'll give your
This is like the Soviet Union.
CK: Oh, it's
unbelievable. And we've been representing our families in
Illinois, like as we do in all fifty states, and this situation where
written letters to Superintendents, we've told them we're not going to
pre-trail hearings, we're not going to allow home visits, they're
unconstitutional, they violate the fourth amendment rights of these
families. We've told the superintendent that we are prepared to sue him.
He continues these tactics, I have talked to him personally. And it seems
that he is going.. he is considering hard changing his policies. So, I'm
thankful for the press coverage because it's put a lot of pressure on
to, uh you know, back down..
AJ: By the
way, this commissar's name is Bruce Dennison, Regional
Superintendent of three counties..
right. And so, when I talked with him, he seems to be not so much
mean spirited, as he genuinely thinks he's doing a good job. He takes...
AJ: Let me
give you an example. I have the Calhoun Reader, used at the
University of Texas as the standard social worker reference book. It's
keystone of their four year training for a bachelor's. And it says, in
book, I have read this quote many times that, "Family belong to the
barbarism, that the schools will become the "hub" who'll have
grave schooling. Now they are talking about making toddlers go to public
school. Now of course, head start families get two CPS visits a year.
They're taking children out of the custody here in Texas of about one
of the homes. This is like a science fiction horror movie. But they're
it all color of law. You're a lawyer aren't you?
correct. I've been senior counsel for eighteen years at Home
you speak to what this color, colorable law these are fraudulent
documents on their face to say "You better come to our pre-trial
the face it looks like that's false arrest, really that's what it is.
CK: It is.
It's a violation of families basic due process rights. And it's
.. they're liable for this kind of tactic. Because they don't have to
such hearing. These pre-trail hearings aren't truly pre-trial hearings,
they're simply a facade, because there is no court action...
a place to pressure group the families into signing other contracts
exactly right. We deal with social workers every single day, in
every state. These are home school families who the social worker gets
anonymous tip... somebody's prejudiced against them. they come to the
they insist on entering , even though it's a violation of the family's
fourth amendment rights. They insist on getting in, interviewing the
children separately. And of course we stop that. The families call us,
hand the phone out the door, we tell the social worker or the cop or
whoever it is that they don't have the authority to come in. We work it
keep them away from the home, and out of the home...
AJ: The bottom
families are intimidated, and give in to these kind of tactics.
this teacher did, she is a certified government training camp
teacher. She's raising her daughter because she doesn't want her to
become... you know, a .. Crack addict or something. I mean that's just
reasonable. I wouldn't put my children in one of these camps for anything.
That's what they are. So where does this go. Because It's obviously a
concerted effort. We know Bill Clinton attacked home schooling; even some
conservative talk show hosts have done it. How do we unify the two plus
million home schooling families to stand up against this, and to back
up. Because we had you on about the California situation, Tie this all
together for us.
we've got some good news on the horizon. There's two levels of
attack. We've got one level its coming from states to legislatures or
state superintendents that are trying to tighten up restrictions on home
school freedoms. The other avenue's coming through the child welfare
agencies one's you've been talking about in Texas and these kind of things
where they're intimidating people, they're acting like they know what's
for the children. The children the families don't and they're trying to
kids without proper due process the good news is for instance in Texas,
we've got a group of legislatures we're working with right now, Home School
Defense is working with them, we're preparing a package it's going to
introduced to the legislature this year so reform the child welfare system
to build in some due process protection so they can't get away with these
kind of tactics.
that due process was already there, inherent in the Bill of
CK: Oh, I
AJ: I know
you know that, but here's the problem. My friend, Mike Hansen.
His children, One of them is home schooled, the other one goes to government
training camp. And Mike, his grandmother died. And he took the children,
of the children out of the public school for one day, wrote a letter the
next day. Well the next day they got a...(Knocking sound effect) knock
the door at 6:30 at night. CPS worker, with the county constable trying
force their way in. The child opened the door, they started pushing into
house. This is textbook Soviet Union, this is terrorism. How about criminal
charges against these people?
CK: We can
. We do that. At Home Schooling Defense, we have filed numerous
suits against the Child Welfare agencies for violating the rights of
families when they push their way in like that , and we've won. Won two
cases In the state of California at the high federal court appellate level
which effects the neighboring states as well. That clearly states that
social worker is under the same limitations of our constitution as any
law enforcement official. They cannot enter homes without warrants signed
by a judge. And a judge can't sign a warrant unless he has probable cause.
None of this breaking in and ...
in Austin, they seize children at birth if the mother's on food
stamps. They cal it "at-risk". It's been all over the news.
And they don't
even have a judges order, they sign an emergency order themselves, and
the judge sign it the next day.
that's part of changes that need to be made in the law. And
that's what we're working on. Because some of the state laws have gotten
little further than our constitution allows. So it takes us going in
AJ: A little
bit further? I was reading about Franco's Spain, where they
took people's children.
CK: Oh yeah...
AJ: I mean
that's exactly what America's done. I'm just blown away here.
Now last time you were on, you talked about, and I agree with you, this
a chilling effect isn't it? Isn't this to intimidate parents so they won't
exactly right. It is causing a chilling effect in a lot of
families ... they don't know their rights are intimidated. And they let
in and they waive their constitutional rights as a result just because
I was gonna
tell you there's one other bit of good news. On Capitol Hill,
I testified at the end of last year, during the anthrax scare, on a bill
called the Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act and this is a big
government funding program that gives the fifty states money for child
welfare agencies Well I offered five amendments, and two of them got
accepted, and they're expected to pass in this lame duck session or the
first thing next session but it will restore certain due process rights
all fifty states.
stay right there, one more quick segment sir, I really
appreciate your joining us. We've got the head of the Home School Legal
Defense association. For eighteen years he's been fighting a lot of families
they've helped in a big way. We'll tell you about their website as well.
want to talk about racketeering civil rights suits because if this isn't
racketeering nothing is; what they're doing to our children.
talking to Christopher Klicka, senior counsel and staff attorney,
director of state and international relations for a great organization,
School Legal Defense Association. We've only got time for one call here
during this last segment with him, but I want to get back to this
racketeering. You know I'm not a lawyer, but I've studied the law and
whole federal government is engaging in color of law organized crime
operations. They're attacking good citizens. Home schoolers have the highest
test scores, the best rates of not being involved in drugs, and sex, and
crime. We all know this, it's embarrassing to public schools, and they're
engaging... I mean I know good, upstanding people who make $500,000 a
that have had CPS visits. I mean this country is falling apart, Chris.
What do we do?
I think eternal vigilance is what's necessary. That means people
need to be involved. They need to listen to your program so they can get
to minute news. As you tell them times when they need to call their
congressman, their legislators. We can stop this. I've seen home schoolers
when they band together we can stop these things. We've defeated just
of legislation over the years. We had a government nanny bill in Florida
last year that passed the legislature by a last minute trick at the end
the year. They convinced Jeb Bush to veto it and kill this government
bill that would have controlled kids from cradle to grave kind of thing...
this show Chris, that they think they own our children? They've
said it in speeches and educational conferences they think that they own
children. Isn't this more of a reason for more parents to leave the public
CK: Oh, I
agree wholeheartedly. The public school is not a safe place for
our kids hearts or souls anymore. You can't pray, you can't have the ten
commandments on anything [it's silent]. Not to mention all the socialism
that's being taught, the secular humanism. That's why I'm so excited and
work so hard on home schooling. Because it's a way for the parents to
instill the values of our forefathers in the children, and they can teach
them the Bible. You know the bedrock of our society.
I plan to home school myself. The website hslda.org hslda.org I'm
sure you've heard about the 3,500 missing children it's now up to that
number of the 46,000 they grab in Florida, and the CPS can't even say
the children are.
and we're there on the front lines of the CPS battle, and we're
winning it. We're winning it in the courts, we're winning it in the
legislatures, we're winning it before Congress.
AJ: All we
need, wouldn't you agree is disclosure of these people. It's so
evil what they're doing, there's no way they can survive the light of
right, and we need people to join Home School Legal Defense. If
they do, we can build up our numbers and our ability to make change. And
when's people have solidarity with one another. As Benjamin Franklin once
said, "If we don't hang together, most assuredly we're going to hang
Quick call. Rhonda from Missouri, you're on the air with
our guest, go ahead Rhonda
Chris, Hi Alex. I don't get this making new laws things. You
know we have the Constitution. I think this making new laws just legitimizes
their right to come after you. "OK, we have the right to your children,
we follow the proper procedures."
AJ: I think
what he's saying is they passed previous draconian laws now
those need to be struck down or overwritten.
We don't want to pass new laws creating anything new, we just
going after the old laws get them to fit the Constitution.
Alex says to you earlier, has anyone been held criminally
accountable? You know, maybe we should see if you will district managers
a federal judge just got kicked off the bench for protecting
pedophiles, that's MSNBC today.
about in your situation? Are you gonna go press any criminal
hard to do criminal charges.. It's just a whole easier to do civil
rights cases where...
they claim immunity
you see the thing is we're running out of time, you know.
Americans, we're patient people. We've been very patient , we've been
forgiving, we've forgiven a lot of things, but the rubber's meeting the
And, you know, and you know we need to quit dancing around the bush.
two suits you won in California, what were those for?
were for CPS workers in the door, and they literally pushed their
way in, strip searched, in one instance, the child, and we went after
for both punitive damages which is almost like criminal but its just money
damages instead of...
our money that they're paying us off with, as Alex so
brilliantly states all the time. You know they have no problem. They're
Lords, they sit up there on their thrones they're still untouched, they
still walk around...
thousand five hundred missing children that CPS has taken in
Florida and no one has been charged. That shows the incredible level of
Rhonda. We've been talking with senior counsel and staff attorney
Director for state and international relations for Home School Legal Defense
Association. Chris, thank you for joining us , and I hope folks go to
hslda.org to learn their rights, and I really appreciate your joining
right on line, if you want to be part of Home School Defense.
Thank you very much.
You. We'll be right back with more calls.
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