New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg argued with her fellow panelists on MSNBC’s “Meet the Press Daily” Friday about whether President Donald Trump is the leader of the free world or an aspiring despot.

RealClearPolitics reporter Caitlin Huey-Burns was criticizing Trump’s communication strategy when she called him “the leader of the free world.” Goldberg interjected to say that, actually, German Chancellor Angela Merkel is the leader of the free world.

“He’s not the leader of the free world, but, sorry,” Goldberg said.

“By default he’s the leader of the free world,” Commentary magazine editor John Podhoretz replied.

“Angela Merkel is the leader of the free world,” Goldberg said, while Podhoretz laughed.

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