Alex Jones Show 10/10/01
(1) The FBI knows another terrorist attack is being planned, right now, for somewhere in Oklahoma City (site unknown)
(2) The FBI has been, and still is, prohibiting their agents or local police from taking known terrorists into custody.
(3) An Iraqi terrorist cell was involved in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, and is still involved.
(4) Ashcroft and members of Congress are not listening.
your members of Congress and ask them WHY?
DS: ....in Oklahoma City and, frankly, when I first heard the information, I just poo-pooed it, as did everybody else - they thought here comes another one of those crazy conspiracy theories, you know. The woman who is a former investigative reporter down in Oklahoma City wrote to me after I came back from Washington and just, you know - congratulations - you did a hell of a job. I wrote back and the next thing you know she wrote back again and told me that she had information indicating a middle eastern connection. I called her at that point and just for my own conscious if there was something out there I'd want to find out about it - she began to tell me what she had and she sent me a short summary - a couple of pages - laying out what she had garnered during her investigations. It really piqued by interest. So I asked her if she had more. She said yes she had an awful lot of stuff, but she wouldn't want to send it up through the mail or any other way. So she and her husband flew up to Chicago and brought a mass of information - I mean affidavits, all kinds of things.
AJ: And we've had Col. Craig Roberts, who was a detective working the case on this show many times, a month before attack, predicting one was imminent. He has all that same information. They actually arrested some of these guys and the Justice Dept. in 1995 said to release them.
DS: That's right - and the words out today that they are not even allowed to touch them, the Oklahoma City police are not allowed to touch these people. And from what I'm understanding, they are up to something again in Oklahoma City. I don't know what it is or what their target is but these same people are at it again. The terrible thing here else, something that few people know that there was a warning sent out. Have you ever heard of Ysolf Bodansky (sp)?
AJ: Yes. DA: He is the guy that wrote the book about Bin Laden. He was hooked up with some Congressional leaders in the House - kind of an unofficial, for lack of a better word, a strike force, a task force on terrorism. They sent out a warning on February 19, 1995, saying there was going to be a massive attack by the terrorists in the heartland of the United States and it was going to be a federal facility. Everybody ignored it. By the way, I have seen that warning, I have seen that warning. I don't have it in front of me so I can't go into the specifics of it too heavily but at the same time, there was in that warning that there was going to be a massive attack in Washington - it took them six years to do it. The targets were going to be Washington, the White House and the Capitol Building. - And that they were going to use airliners to attack them.
AJ: Now later you got it from FBI agents in Chicago and Minnesota that there was going to an attack on lower Manhattan.
DS: Yea - and that's what started me calling. I started calling out there. First of all, I tried to see if I could get a Congressman to go to bat for me and at least bring these people out there and listen to them. I sent them information and nobody cared. It was always, "We'll get back to you", "we'll get back to you", "we'll get back to you." Then I reached out and tried to get to the Attorney General, when finally we got an attorney general in there that I would be willing to talk to. And, again, I used people who were personal friends of John Ashcroft to try to get him. One of them called me back and said, "Alright I have talked to him. He will call you tomorrow morning." This was like a month before the bombing. The next morning I got a call. It wasn't from Ashcroft. It was from somebody in the Justice Dept.
AJ: One of his handlers.
DS: Yea, and I started telling him the situation and he said, "You know we don't start our investigations at the top." I said I would like to talk to the Attorney General because this is vital. He said, "We don't start our investigations at the top. Let me look into this and I will get back to you." As I sit here today, I have never heard from him.
AJ: Again, David Shippers, you are big in Washington, you were the top lawyer that got Clinton impeached, you are highly respected, you know the Senators, the Congressmen. You're calling up. You've got these FBI agents and others feeding you this information. They're being pulled off the cases, they're angry. That's even been in the news now, from Minnesota and Florida and Illinois. They know what's going to happen. The Sudanese in '96 and '98 tried to arrest Bin Laden for Clinton, tried to give us the names of Al Qaeda, Clinton wouldn't take it.
DS: Didn't want any part of it.
AJ: Wouldn't touch it. So we've got all this developing. We've got police officers and FBI on the ground who know who bombed Oklahoma City. They've got them in custody with blue jogging suits and bomb-making components. They are ordered to release them. All of this is unfolding - 3500 to 5000 Iraqi Republican Guard (living near OKC), we know there is a Saddam/Iraqi connection here - I mean they knew this. Why in the world, David Shippers, did they allow this to take place?
DS: I'll tell you something. This one of the things that, to me, it is almost inconceivable, inconceivable that with the knowledge they had that they would turn their back. Just assume that they had investigated and gone in after the Oklahoma City bombing, as they are doing now. There never would have been an attack on the Trade Towers. If they had done, 5 to 6 years ago what they are doing now, they probably would have had Bin Laden and that gang all stopped by now. But, I don't know, as a human being, as a former prosecutor, as a lawyer and a guy who represents police and agents all over the United States, it is inconceivable to me that those bureaucrats in Washington would turn their back on the obvious for their own purposes.
AJ: And now the World Trade Center Complex is absolutely destroyed.
DS: Yes, 6000 people are dead. And there is more coming. There is more coming.
AJ: Now you say, from your sources, I know you represent a bunch of FBI agents who are hopping mad, you probably can't talk about the specifics, you say you are representing them. Are they getting ready to sue or something?
DS: Well they are hoping to, but what do you sue for? What I'm trying to do is get the people in Washington - you see these agents can't come out. The only information that I have is information that is public knowledge. They can't tell me anything that is confidential or anything that is secret, or anything like that. I'm talking about what is public knowledge and these guys can't say anything unless they are subpoenaed.
AJ: That's why you want to get into a court.
DS: I don't want to get into a court. I want to get them into the intelligence committee. I want to get them to talk to the Attorney General, to Gov. Ridge, to General Downing or to somebody who has the ability or the authority to go to the FBI bureaucrats and say "Butt out!" - we are going to do this right.
AJ: I'm sure you are aware that on the History Channel, they are reporting that we had prior knowledge of the Japanese attack and they allowed that to take place.
AJ: And now you see the UN empowered, the World Court empowered. It looks like the UN is going to get to take over that oil supply in Central Asia. The face scanning cameras - now they are on the fast track. This has sure brought the police state into a lot more focus.
DS: It sure has. I've been saying for years that once you have license, the next step is tyranny. It really is scary. The whole thing is scary. Remember the Palmer raids when they had the Reds scare in the early twentieth century and they just went out and rounded up everybody and threw them in jails and deported them. Our freedoms took a real hit. I hope to God that we don't run into the same thing this time. The people are saying, "I want to be safe." Who was it, Ben Franklin said if you give up your liberties for security, you will eventually lose both your liberties and your security.
AJ: We're talking to David Shippers. We're discussing FBI agents across the country having prior knowledge of the attacks, trying to get these guys arrested or even to get a warrant, knowing they were associates of Bin Laden, others being trained at the Pensacola Naval Air Station, Clinton not wanting the names of Al Queda when they had the chance, there is so much evidence of prior knowledge. How did this happen with the Bush administration, when you are trying to get to Ashcroft and telling them that they is a plan to attack lower Manhattan very soon and what was the intel you were getting from these agents?
DS: Well, a lot of this wasn't coming from the agents. When the bomb hit (WTC attack) and everybody said we have to find the money (trail) and stop the money. The only place the money was actually identified and stopped was in Chicago. There was actually a lawsuit, a case filed here in Chicago, in which money that had been earmarked for Hamas, to be used for terrorism, was grabbed by the United States government - and seized and forfeited, and that was here in Chicago.
AJ: But that agent had to go through a lot of grief to get that done.
DS: An agent actually filed the affidavit. I'm not talking about anything that is confidential. This agent here in Chicago filed the affidavit where he laid out the whole way that the money moves, the way that it is handled, how it comes out of the middle east into Chicago area and into the United States, how it is covered, how the operatives are covered, how the money is transferred back and where it's kept while its here. And that affidavit ran like 30 pages - laying it out. And he had to go through hell on earth in Washington, he had to fight like a tiger - everybody in his own bureau and in the Dept. of Justice was against him - and still is.
AJ: Now the FBI agents in Minnesota knew about this and had the evidence but they couldn't even get a wiretap or a warrant to search these guys.
AJ: We're talking about some of the actual hijackers.
DS: Exactly. And this woman who was talking to me, she had other contacts, who were in Naval Intelligence and other areas, and she was reporting that there was one of these terrorists who was involved in the bombing in Oklahoma City - was working at the Boston airport. A friend of mine who happens to be an agent had information that there were Hamas operatives working in baggage and areas at O'Hare Airport with free access to any part of the airport. But no one would listen. They just said it's not true, it can't happen that way. I'll tell you something. I don't know if it was because Clinton and his boys didn't want the United States to realize that Flight 800 was a terrorist attack and that Oklahoma City was a terrorist attack because they didn't want to admit that the intelligence of the United States was totally destroyed.
AJ: Well Craig Roberts says it best. They wanted to demonized the patiot organizations and create this internal security force to watch Americans....
AJ: because the "precious Arabs", they can't do anything wrong.
DS: And that's exactly what they started. I forget which nitwit it was that came out and said you can blame the Russ Limbaugh's and the talk show hosts who are fomenting this terror.
AJ: That was Bill Clinton.
DS: Yea, Clinton made that statement. And they had a handy guy in McVeigh. I also know from affidavits that I have read that there were eyewitnesses who saw the middle eastern man running from the scene (OKC bombing) along side McVeigh.
AJ: And why don't the feds just release those 12 surveillance camera tapes if it is just McVeigh alone?
DS: Those surveillance camera tapes are going to show that there was a middle eastern man running with him. Some of these people who gave affidavits were interviewed by the FBI during the course of the investigation. They were interviewed about the second person that they saw and the agents tried to make them say or suggested to them that the second person was Nichols. Every single one of these people said absolutely not, it was a middle-eastern type individual.
AJ: Al Hussani (sp)
DS: Now, listen to this. None of those investigative reports; none of those 302s have ever surfaced. So the FBI comes up with all these thousands of documents which they claimed they overlooked but the key ones where they tried to get them to say it was Nichols never surfaced.
AJ: It is so important that all of you out there contact your representatives, contact the White House, contact the Justice Dept. and say talk to David Shippers. He's a man we can trust who helped get Clinton impeached. Talk about a dangerous job - who then wrote a book detailing the black mail, the intimidation by Clinton in the Senate. And now we find out that weeks and months before he had the news, the feds, the investigators telling him these terrorists are all over the place ... Now David Shippers, the knowledge, the information, you told me yesterday on the phone that it was lower Manhattan, months before, you are trying to get into see Ashcroft, they wouldn't let you do it. What were the reports you were getting about the attack on lower Manhattan?
DS: The original report that I got was that they had arranged for three attacks on the United States - one, they were going to take down an airline; two, they were going to attack a federal facility in the heartland of the United States; and the third one was going to be a massive attack in lower Manhattan.
AJ: The first was TWA 800, then Oklahoma City...
DS: The original intelligence that was reported to me, and this was not first hand obviously, that the original plan was a suitcase nuclear weapon.
AJ: Now we gotten that from Col. Roberts and a bunch of other people...
DS: I've ran into a lot of nuts who came up with a not of strange theories, outer space, and things like that. But these people who I was talking to were very, very credible people. For example, Jayna Davis took everything she had ...
AJ: Tell us who she is, one more time...for those who just tuned in
DS: She was an investigative reporter working for a TV station in Oklahoma City at the time of the bombing.
AJ: And they had these very middle-eastern Bin Laden, Saddam minions, interviewing these guys.
DS: Yes, absolutely. She identified by the name the guy who was the one. Recently, she came up with some evidence that another guy there actually admitted that he was part of the World Trade Center bombing. He's still walking around. I mean they are taking people into custody, they are offering rewards, but these guys are still there and still doing their little thing.
AJ: That's the point I'm trying to make. The government has their names, knows who the cells are, the 3500 Iraqi....
DS: I don't know if they do because when Jayna had all this material.. I'm talking about 3 giant loose-leaf binders full of affidavits and other material. This woman did a job of investigating that would make the Massad look bad.
AJ: The New York Times came in and bought up her TV station and got rid of her.
DS: Well, they bought up the TV station and got rid of her and also tried to make her turn over notes and films and stuff like that but she beat them court. She's still got them.
AJ: Here's the bottom line question. The attack on lower Manhattan, the third big attack. We know you tried to get to the Attorney General. What did you say?
DS: My first move was to go through some of the people that I knew in Congress because I was working on two fronts. On the one hand I wanted to get someone to listen to Jayna about Oklahoma City; on the other hand, I was trying to get someone to understand that Hamas has infiltrated the United States so thoroughly that I don't how long it will take to run them out. All over the United States. They had a training camp for terrorism at Chicago.
AJ: There is a mosque at UT for the young Islamics, they raise money for terrorism right there. And nothing is being done.
DS: Bill O'Reilly had that guy from southern Florida University that raised money for Hamas. And whenever you mention Hamas, everybody says it's a humanitarian organization.
AJ: No, they're not.
DS: They're humanitarian like Hitler was humanitarian. They are terrorists and they will never be anything but terrorists.
AJ: And we are not supposed to criticize these people.
DS: No, you can't say anything. I just heard about the young man whose sister was injured in the World Trade Center and he put up an American flag and some American slogans on his locker at school. They gave him a ten-day suspension because they said it might be offensive to some of the Arab students.
AJ: They are saying the American flag is racist.
DS: Isn't that lovely.
AJ: Let's stop the evil American flag from being flown at your business or at your university, but let's leave the Hamas people alone.
DS: You know the guy that cut the throat of that bus driver in Tennessee was here on a one-month visa and he had overstayed his visa by what - a year and a half, two years. Until somebody starts listening, I'm telling you, I see on television, I see them saying that the president has said that these tapes that are coming from Bin Laden may very well be signals or codes to terrorists in the United States.
AJ: And why is every network running them?
DS: Bingo. You tell me. When they say that they may very well be signals, he can give all the signals he wants in Pakistan and Afghanistan but if the American networks don't carry it, then they won't out. But the American networks are saying that people have a right to know.
AJ: And they are calling for more attacks on the tapes.
DS: Yea, the latest tape specifically made reference to the heart of the United States.
AJ: Yea, attack the heartland - you said your intel or your sources....
DS: They are doing something down there in Oklahoma City. The folks in Oklahoma City tell me they are up to something. There are deliveries being made, there is material being moved and places being opened... One of the methods they use to cover their operatives while in the States is they set up some garbage or a pretend garage - or a filling station where they can all allegedly work. But they're not working there, it's not really a garage, it's just a location to cover them. I tried the House, I tried the Senate, I tried the Dept. of Justice, I didn't go to the FBI because I know there is a roadblock there and I didn't go to the Justice Dept. until Ashcroft got in there because I know there's roadblocks out there. These are the very people who put up roadblocks on the attack against the terrorists under Clinton, they are still there. They still constitute, almost like moat, between the people with information and the people who should hear the information.
AJ: Well we know that Clinton released 16 members of the FALN.
DS: Sure. Well he had to win New York didn't he? He had to win New York for Hillary.
AJ: So when you are talking to these people at the Dept. of Justice, folks at Congress, what do they say?
DS: They say, that's wonderful, we'll get right back to you. I have never got a call back. I was on a radio program out east, Pittsburgh, and I just hinted that the FBI was sitting on information when they should have been sharing it with others and, as a result, there was a breakdown in intelligence. And the next morning, I got a call from the office of the Speaker of the House, who happens to be an Illinois Republican.
DS: Yes, Hastert. They hadn't heard the show but they said we understand you've got some information, etc. I said, yes I do, I would really like to share it with somebody. I have at least two and maybe three witnesses that should be subpoenaed to come out there and testify in executive session and tell you what I was talking about. Ok. We'll get back to you. Never heard from them. Couple of days later, I got a call from the Senate Intelligence Committee. We hear that you've got information, etc. Yes, I have information and I'd be perfectly willing to bring it out to you. I'd be perfectly willing to have my witnesses go in there and testify but they have to be subpoenaed. And by the way, I will not talk to staffers because the staffers don't tell the Congressman what they found out. Ok, we'll get back to you. That was last week, I still haven't heard from them.
AJ: So bottom line - and my intelligence sources who were police officers who actually worked the case, FBI who worked the OKC bombing case, grand jury witnesses, are saying they are getting ready for something big, not just in Oklahoma, but out on the West Coast as well. That's the intel I'm getting and nothing is being done. They are just talking about national ID cards, face scanning, troops with no bullets in the airports, they are not going to arm the pilots, this is sick!
DS: The whole thing is unbelievable. You know, I talk to people who are in the media, people who are well aware of what is going on and they cannot believe that this is happening.
AJ: Can we get you on the O'Reilly factor to talk about this?
DS: I've been on O'Reilly but not to talk about this. You know Jayna was on twice and she laid it out. She got a call and she said that Dave Shippers was representing her - so I think that might have precipitated a call from someone in Washington who immediately said I'll get back to you and that was the end of it. Strangely enough, the one group I haven't heard from is the FBI intelligence people. Of course, if I did hear from them I wouldn't talk to them anyhow, because they are totally incompetent. >
AJ: They got their funding tripled after OKC bombing....
DS: Sure, that's great and they can all sit around and tell everybody that their informants told them this or that. They are running around grabbing people they should have grabbed 5 years ago.
AJ: What are your sources saying about the Oklahoma City area?
DS: That somebody is up to something down there. I know of phone calls going to Iraq from some of these guys. I know of phone calls from one of the known, one of the named terrorists by the FBI, he is making calls to a place that is identical to one of the people that I am talking about. In other words, same place...
AJ: Did you see Bush show pictures of Bin Laden's minions?
DS: Yes, the most wanted.
AJ: But we have people involved, fingered, witnesses on tape there at the Oklahoma City bombing at the scene, later apprehended with the jogging suits, with the materials, then told to be released by the Justice Dept. back in '95.
DS: They don't want any part of it. Jayna's got the original police radio calls. And in the original calls, it said to be on the lookout for this truck that was being driven by a middle-eastern type individual. That was the original one and I remember, at one point, one police officer called in and said by whose authority do we stop this guy. And they said: authority FBI, Oklahoma City. Then shortly thereafter, the all-points-bulletins stopped and there was never another word. Remember how they said that he (McVeigh) had been with a militant group in Michigan and how we all have to hunker down because they crazy right wing maniacs are liable to do anything. Nobody wanted to tell it like it was because it would turn out that the crazy rightwing maniacs were right all along.
AJ: And had been warning people about the threat.
AJ: So where does it go from here?
DS: Well, I'm still trying, I'm still trying to get somebody to listen to me out there and to listen to my witnesses - and to, at least, take the material. You know, Jayna Davis, took the same stuff she showed me and walked into the FBI at Oklahoma City and said here, I have all this material, it may be of some assistance to you. They said, we don't want it. They refused to even take it.
AJ: You can see the motive. I see more intelligence funding, I see the cashless society with biometrics, I see an expanded UN, I see NATO planes patrolling our skies, I see global government being empowered and a takeover of the middle east and central asia. I see great dividends for them by allowing this to happen.
DS: I hope to God that you're wrong, I do. I can't fight or argue with you because it does seem to be heading that way. However, I think the problem is that they covered up the TWA 800 bombing, they covered up the Oklahoma City bombing, but when the whole world watched those two planes hit the Towers, there is no way they could blame that on a local group. They have to get into it now and I think - I'm not talking about Ashcroft or the president, I'm not talking about the street agent. They are the greatest men on the face of the earth, as far as I'm concerned - the FBI street agent, the guys out there going door to door. AJ: Yea, but in Minnesota they did they job...
DS: Sure and they got hurt for it. AJ: and they got pulled off the case.
DS: And in Chicago, they did their job and they got pulled off the case. And down in Oklahoma City, you've got those three agents. And what did they do? The method by which they stopped them. They bring some garbage charge against them and then say well they are dissidents. They try to affect their credibility by that.
AJ: For trying to protect their country, the heroes get crucified.
DS: The heroes get crucified and the bureaucrats sit out there and tell each other what a great job they are doing until another city blows up. And then they say, they need more tools. They have all the tools in the world. They could have found the money (trail) years ago if they had just listened. Sorry, if I sound mad, I am.
AJ: No, I'm angry too. They've got biologicals, they've got chemicals. They've got suitcase nukes. As you said, that was the original plan. It could happen any time - from the same sources that you have that I have. David Shippers, I can only commend you for going public with this because you do have so much credibility.
got to go public. We tried to do it the right way, we tried to do it by
going to the people in whom you would normally repose your confidence
and trust. It didn't work. Nobody cares.